How do you know Armageddon is not coming?? (page 2)

Scully

I guess it all depends on how you define "Armageddon". Like Celia says, the Iraqi people may very well consider the war in their land to be a kind of Armageddon - the end of civilization as they know it. However, we all learned as JWs that Armageddon? would be a war of Justice and Righteousness - and the war in Iraq hardly qualifies as Just or Righteous, imho.

Armageddon? - as defined by the JW belief system - may or may not come in my lifetime. Personally, whether it does or not is immaterial to me - I have no control over whether it comes or not. I do not wish to Live Forever In Paradise on Earth? (after a 1,000 year long clean-up operation by the survivors - which kind of pisses me off actually - why the hell can't God clean up his own damn mess instead of making people clean up after him???) with Jehovah's Witnesses. Period, end of story. I prefer to live the life I have NOW in a way that allows my gifts and talents to be used to the best of their ability, and to teach my children to discover and appreciate their own gifts and talents and use them to the best of their ability in their lifetimes. If that way of life is not good enough for God, then I have no use for God at all. I am no longer willing to put my life on the back burner to satisfy the agenda of a worship-needy attention-seeking (inferiority complex, perhaps??) diety who terrorizes the human race with threats to murder those who choose not to worship him.

I stopped worrying about Armageddon? a long time ago and life is so much better that way, thank you very much.

Love, Scully

Mutz

As I told my recently reinstated friend, it's not coming for as long as you have a hole in your **** mate.

czarofmischief

The premise that Armageddon is "coming" is based on the following assertions; none of which I subscribe to:

a) The Bible is the inspired word of God.

b) The inspired word of God contains prophecies.

c) The prophesies of God apply to my day.

These assertions can all be debunked - all it takes is ONE of those assertions to be disproved and guess what, Armageddon ain't coming in my lifetime! Or anybody else's. Let's start with c and work backwards.

c) The prophesies of God apply to my day.

This delusion is based on a "second fulfillment" of the prophecies of Daniel, Isaiah, and those attributed to Jesus. It also relies heavily on a literal interpretation of Revelation. However, nowhere within the Bible is there an instruction to create a "second" fulfillment. Often, the followers claim that "because the prophecies weren't fulfilled back then, there must be a greater fulfillment in the future". That's just nonsense. There was never any indication that the prophecies would ever be fulfilled again.

b) The inspired word of God contains prophecies.

Not true. It contains the accounts of prophecies. It contains a lot of wishful thinking and fantasies. It has a lot of vague sentence structure and some numbers games that have created speculation and false hope, over and over again throughout human history.

a) The Bible is the inspired word of God.

Again, it's just not true. It was compiled in the third century to meet the needs of Constantine's new state religion. There is no reason to believe that those power hungry men were any more inspired than Saddam Hussein - nor is there any reason to "connect" the prophecies together as though the Bible fell out of the sky intact.

Sorry. Armageddon ain't coming to solve anything.

Celia, I'm sorry you think that a rule of terror and despotic warmongering is preferable for the people of Iraq. And I'm sorry you really think W is worse than Saddam. And I'm REALLY sorry you dragged your inane politics into this thread.

CZAR

BrendaCloutier

I don't know, I don't care. If' I have the luck to face Jehovah and Jesus on Judgement Day, I will gladly stand up for myself and my actions, good and bad. I'll also discuss female design and function issues.

Hugs

Brenda

PS, let's all get together for a giant Apostfest the first Tuesday after Armageddon, eh?

Narkissos

Terrible disasters can happen any time.

But any NT version of the end of the world was due to happen over 19 centuries ago.

Why should I gather an apocalyptic scenario from the NT and reject the NT timing?

Whatever happens in the future will be something else.

JH

Imagine the Armageddon sales and how much we will save...

JamesThomas

There is nothing more repugnant and "evil" than the wholesale slaughter of men, women and children. Yet, out of such a cesspool, the mind creates it's concepts and interpretations of a god.

Give attention to the mind and it's religious beliefs and deities, and know fear of punishment, and greed for reward (the two things most opposed to spirituality).

Shift attention from the jabbering mind, and silently move into this moment of aliveness and being where past and future dissolve, and questions like this thread's do not exist.

"Armageddon" can be understood to mean the falling away of what is false (a mind generated reality and identity), and the realization to what is real and true, and here -- already.

Narkissos

JT: Your "spiritualization" of Armageddon reminds me of the tactics several NT texts resorted to when it appeared that the futuristic expectation wouldn't be fulfilled in time. What was expected for the future needed to be reinterpreted in present, spiritual, mystical terms, especially by pointing out that the true believers already live by the ultimate reality and won't be decisively concerned by any future event.

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers and sisters, you do not need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. When they say, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them, as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there will be no escape! But you, beloved, are not in darkness, for that day to surprise you like a thief; for you are all children of light and children of the day; we are not of the night or of darkness.

So if you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth, for you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory.

Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There it is!' For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among (or within) you."

Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

I will not leave you orphaned; I am coming to you. In a little while the world will no longer see me, but you will see me; because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

Most of what many Christians would call the "highest spiritual" texts of the NT actually results from such a reinterpretation of futuristic apocalypticism (this is not to say that every non-apocalyptic teaching in the NT is post-apocalyptic, for this wouldn't be true). Reciprocally, this kind of "spiritual" faith is jeopardized whenever Christians re-embark on the old apocalyptic ways (foretelling the end of the world again).

waiting

There is no way to prove that something is not coming. Because there's no evidence of it "being"........so how can you prove something where there is no evidence for or against?

IF there is a God, perhaps the best advice is to live a life gentle with people, trying not to hurt, but trying (and doing) some good. At least, that's what I think.

And IF there is an Armaggedon (which of course, means there'll be a Rapture too [jw's don't like to include that little diddy])..........then it's beyong our scope anyway.

Besides, Christmas is on the way...........there's a great new *not quite kid's book" out called "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus." $10.95 and TERRIFIC! It's an editorial from the 1920's in response to 8 yr old Virginia who wrote into the NY Times (I think that's the paper). A famous writer wrote back............and his editorial was reprinted every year until the paper shut down. Approximately 50 yrs. Wonderful pictures for children and adults.

So think positive - there's is some truth to positive thinking. Armageddon is NOT positive thinking. It's JW thinking. ugh.

waiting

Celia

Celia, I'm sorry you think that a rule of terror and despotic warmongering is preferable for the people of Iraq. And I'm sorry you really think W is worse than Saddam. And I'm REALLY sorry you dragged your inane politics into this thread.

Do you know how many people Hussein has killed over the years ? How many Iraqi civilians have been killed since W.Bush went to war over there? (some say 100,000)Would you like to live day after day the way the Iraqi people have to live since Bush sent the troops over there ? That's what I mean with Armageddon in this case. Fear and terror every minute of the day, every day. I am glad Hussein is not in power any more, but he was not a threat to the West, and life certainly has not improved for the civilians there, on the contrary.... more and more insurgents, because noone wants their country to be occupied by a foreign power, and it's going to get worse. Bush is a hypocrite, hiding behind his Christian principles....

How do you know Armageddon is not coming??

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