I amaze myself that I understood your article. I echo midget-saskquatch's words,
your gift for assimilating detail into coherent plausible wholes
I agree that you have poked neat holes in to the "all scripture" argument.
James 4:5 -- A Quote From a Lost Apocryphal Scripture
by Leolaia 64 Replies latest watchtower bible
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jgnat
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willyloman
Leolaia: thanks for sharing your terrific research with us.
I'm curious, and perhaps you've elaborated on this elsewhere, but with respect to your multiple citations of scriptures alluding to the "Lord's coming"" in this post: What is your take on the timing of the fulfilment of this? Did it occur back in the first century? At some other time? Or is it future?
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Leolaia
Midget....Police detective? rotfl!!! Well, it is interesting -- if you compare this to, like, a murder case. It's entirely circumstantial, based on clues that are hard to explain any other way, like how Columbo gets his man by trapping him in his lies....and yet, since only four words of Eldad and Modad are really extant for sure (thanks to Hermas' direct quotation), it's like trying to prove a murder case without a body! Have I proven it beyond all reasonable doubt? No...I think it would take a complete manucript of Eldad and Modad to prove this. But does it explain a preponderance of the evidence. I think so....
The funny thing is that some critics, when faced with Lightfoot's old suggestion that the quotes in 1 and 2 Clement may derive from the lost Eldad and Modad, seem disinclined to even pursue the matter because the book is no longer extant....they seem to disdain such speculation as without grounds....and yet, when I looked into the matter, this turned out to be a too high burden of proof because the theory does explain a number of remarkable coincidences that would otherwise be unexplained. Anyway, the fact that Q or Papias' Exposition of the Dominical Oracles are no longer extant has not stopped critics from speculating on their probable contents on the basis of their probable use by other writers.
ellderwho....Yes, that is one problem of many with the book. For being a Hellenistic work, it has similar chronological and historical difficulties to Judith (Necuchadnezzer, king of Assyria in Ninevah, fighting against an unknown Arphaxad of Media?) and Daniel (Nebuchadnezzer's seven "times" of madness, whither Darius the Mede?).
jgnat....The real holes are "poked" by Jude's explicit use of 1 Enoch. Here there is no doubt....Jude quotes 1 Enoch 1:9, attributes it correctly to "Enoch", indicates that he believes the quoted passage is divinely inspired (by calling it "prophecy"), the passage is indeed part of 1 Enoch, the passage is extant in an Aramaic copy of 1 Enoch that dates to the first century BC, and Jude otherwise contains five or six other allusions and parallels to 1 Enoch. It's hard to think of any harder evidence than that.
willyloman....Well, there is of course the Preterist belief which claims that everything promised happened figuratively and literally in the first century, but this just doesn't wash imho with the concepts of first-century apocalyptic speculation.....the "coming" of the Son of Man was to be in judgment, with him and the angels judging the souls of the living and the dead, and his coming was supposed to be visible to all (cf. Matthew 24:27; Revelation 1:7)...this is watered down to God coming "as if in the clouds" to bring judgment on Jerusalem....but such a narrow interpretation of the "judgment" is inconsistent with the universal scope of the Son of Man predictions. The timing of such events was thought to be imminent; Paul certainly believed that his contemporaries would be "still living" at the time of the Lord's coming (1 Thessalonians 4:17). It is ironic that the Society used Matthew 24:34 to expect the imminent end to come in the 20th century when it originally referred to the generation that witnessed Jesus not passing away. Here is another similarity with the Society:
"For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming with his kingdom" (Matthew 16:27-28).
Millions now living will not taste death? Bible inerranists go to much length to explain away this scripture as a "preview" of the Transfiguration, but this is just not plausible as it plainly refers to the still-future coming of the Son of Man with his angels in judgment.
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Leolaia
Now that you're all familiar with the evidence, let's see what the Society has to say about James 4:5, shall we?
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w77 8/15 pp. 511-512 Questions from Readers ***James 4:5 reads: "Or does it seem to you that the scripture says to no purpose: ?It is with a tendency to envy that the spirit which has taken up residence within us keeps longing??"
Actually there is no single Bible verse that the disciple James can definitely be said to be quoting. [Correct]
Perhaps he was simply giving a summary, as it were, of a basic idea found in a number of verses [No, there are no scriptures that connect the "spirit" with "jealousy," aside from the Eldad and Modad passage in Numbers 11:29, and the specific wording in James 4:5 is shared with Hermas who quotes from an apocryphal book of Eldad and Modad].
Because no specific verse in the Hebrew Scriptures matches James? wording, certain commentators have suggested that he was quoting from some apocryphal or lost writings. [Yes, because the context of James 4:5-9 closely resembles an apocryphal passage quoted in 1 and 2 Clement, and Hermas similarly uses the same language while quoting the Book of Eldad and Modad. Moreover, the Modad and Eldad passage that Hermas quotes is echoed in James 4:8, and the specific wording of James 4:5 is shared with Hermas as well. There is a mutual connection.]
However, the inspired writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures consistently used the expression ?the scripture says? to introduce quotations from or references to parts of the inspired canon, either from the original Hebrew-language books or a Greek translation of them. (John 19:37; Rom. 4:3; 9:17; Gal. 4:30; 1 Tim. 5:18) [You can only make this claim by ignoring the counter-examples. James 4:5 is one such counter-example. John 7:38 is another.].
They did not quote from the noncanonical books of the Apocrypha. [Then what is Jude 14-15 supposed to be???]
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Narkissos
Another strong evidence for short-term expectations in some traditions of Matthew is 10:22f, in the context of the mission to Israel only (v. 5f: "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"):
and you will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Here the perspective is even shorter than in chapter 24, which depends on Mark ("immediately after" the fall of Jerusalem, be it 70 or 135), or the final addition in 28:18ff, which implies a mission to the Gentiles with the spiritual presence of the resurrected Christ before the "end" comes.
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ellderwho
By this standard you could dump most of the Hebrew Bible as well.
I find it amazing how easily some can shift from apologetic to critical mode as soon as they cross the canon border...
Lets not throw the baby and the bathwater out.
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ellderwho
Leolaia: Jerome did not (tho he called them "scripture"), but Augustine certainly did view them as authoritative....Moreover, Tertullian, Cyprian, Hippolytus, Origen (cf. Ad Africanus, 5-9, 13; Adversus Celsus, 7.12, etc.), and others treated these books as scripture.
Do any of the aprocryphal books to your knowledge claim to be the word of God?Also, Im currently researching as to whether Jerome "endorsed" the aprocryphy. I was under the impression he spoke out against it. And argued against its canonicity.
Your thoughts?
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Narkissos
Do any of the aprocryphal books to your knowledge claim to be the word of God?
How many of the 66 books of the Protestant canon claim to be the word of God?
Edited to add: as far as I remember Jerome's most famous arguments against the full canonicity of the "apocrypha" are in his Prologus Galeatus. They are related to his governing principle of Hebraica veritas, which was a minority position in the Church back then (how could he know that several of those texts were actually Hebrew works translated into Greek?)
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ellderwho
Ahh, answer a question with a question. Very well, OT Num 35:1,9; Josh1:1; Isa. 1:10,18,24; Jer.1:2; Ezek. 1:3; Hos. 1:1; Joel 1:1.
Nark. you may have me on the NT. However my question remains.
Nark. what are your thoughts on the Book of Tobits' chronology?
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Leolaia
Do any of the aprocryphal books to your knowledge claim to be the word of God?
This is a tricky question because canonical OT books which claim to record or CONTAIN God's word do not present themselves as synonymous with God's word. This second view is much later than the books themselves, deriving from their place in religous life as "sacred scripture". So even with a book like Jeremiah, which claims to record "the word of Yahweh" in reporting the prophetic oracles (cf. 1:4, 2:1, 3:1, etc.), one would be very hard-pressed to claim that the narrative portions of the book relating the events of Jeremiah's prophetic career (such as ch. 40-41) similarly present themselves as the "word of Yahweh". Then there are the non-prophetic and more secular books, such as 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ruth, Esther, and so forth which make no pretensions (aside from isolated oracles, etc.) of representing God's word. Similarly, Judith and 1 and 2 Maccabees are more secular than devotional in tone.
As for the apocryphal or pseudepigraphal books, I would say that Sirach (especially in the first-person discourse in ch. 24) claims to represent the voice of the Spirit of Wisdom (= Holy Spirit). 1 Enoch quotes the "Most High" speaking to the archangels (ch. 10), what God said to Enoch in heaven before God's throne (ch. 15), the "words of the Holy One" prophesying the coming destruction of the wicked (ch. 38-39, 45), God's promise to Noah (ch. 67), and so forth. 4 Ezra reports what "the word of the Lord" said to Ezra in prophecy (cf. 1:4-2:32, which includes "Thus says the Lord," "Thus says the Lord Almighty" etc.), 2 Baruch reports a prayer Baruch made to the Lord and the prophecy the Lord gave in response, and so forth. So yes, many such books (especially those in the apocalyptic genre) claim to contain God's word.
Also, Im currently researching as to whether Jerome "endorsed" the aprocryphy. I was under the impression he spoke out against it. And argued against its canonicity.
I think I explained this clearly enough. Jerome did not accept the Apocrypha as authoritative -- as being equal to the books used by the Hebrews. But he clearly did accept them, use them, and describe them as divinely-inspired Scripture. He did not reject them altogether. Here are some quotes from Jerome to show you what I mean:
"Yet (4) the Holy Spirit in the thirty-ninth psalm, while lamenting that all men walk in a vain show, and that they are subject to sins, speaks thus: "For all that every man walketh in the image." (Psalm 39:6) Also (5) after David's time, in the reign of Solomon his son, we read a somewhat similar reference to the divine likeness. For in the book of Wisdom, which is inscribed with his name, Solomon says: "God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity." (Wisdom 2:23) And again, (6) about eleven hundred and eleven years afterwards, we read in the New Testament that men have not lost the image of God. For James, an apostle and brother of the Lord, whom I have mentioned above, that we may not be entangled in the snares of Origen, teaches us that man does possess God's image and likeness. For, after a somewhat discursive account of the human tongue, he has gone on to say of it: "It is an unruly evil, therewith bless we God, even the Father and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God." (James 3:8-9) (7) Paul, too, the "chosen vessel," (Acts 9:15) who in his preaching has fully maintained the doctrine of the gospel, instructs us that man is made in the image and after the likeness of God. "A man," he says, "ought not to wear long hair, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God." (1 Corinthians 11:7) He speaks of "the image" simply, but explains the nature of the likeness by the word "glory." 7. Instead of the three proofs from Holy Scripture which you said would satisfy you if I could produce them, behold I have given you seven." (Jerome, Letter 51).
"Does not the Scripture say, 'Burden not yourself above your power' (Sirach 13:2)." (Jerome, Ad Estochium, Epistle 108).
"I would cite the words of the Psalmist: 'The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,? (Psalm 51:17) and those of Ezekiel, 'I prefer the repentance of a sinner rather than his death,? (Ezekiel 18:23), and those of Baruch, 'Arise, arise, O Jerusalem,? (Baruch 5:5), and many other proclamations made by the trumpets of the Prophets" (Jerome, Ad Oceanus, Epistle 77.4).
"Let me call to my aid the example of the three children, who, amid the cool, encircling fire, sang hymns (Song of the Three Children, Daniel 3), instead of weeping, and around whose turbans and holy hair the flames played harmlessly. Let me recall, too, the story of the blessed Daniel, in whose presence, though he was their natural prey, the lions crouched, with fawning tails and frightened mouths (Daniel 6). Let Susannah also rise in the nobility of her faith before the thoughts of all; who, after she had been condemned by an unjust sentence, was saved through a youth inspired by the Holy Spirit (Susanna 45 = Daniel 13:45). In both cases the Lord's mercy was alike shewn; for while Susannah was set free by the judge, so as not to die by the sword, this woman, though condemned by the judge, was acquitted by the sword (Jerome, Letter 1.9).
"These things, dearest daughter in Christ, I impress upon you and frequently repeat, that you may forget those things which are behind and reach forth unto those things which are before. You have widows like yourself worthy to be your models, Judith renowned in Hebrew story and Anna the daughter of Phanuel famous in the gospel. Both these lived day and night in the temple and preserved the treasure of their chastity by prayer and by fasting. One was a type of the Church which cuts off the head of the devil (cf. Judith 13:8) and the other first received in her arms the Saviour of the world and had revealed to her the holy mysteries which were to come (cf. Luke 2:36-38)." (Jerome, to Salvina, Letter 79:10).
This last example is interesting because Jerome cites the story of Judith as a typological (type-antitype) similitude of the future Church, making the apocryphal work prefigure and reveal God's purposes for the Church. In the other examples, Jerome shows he accepts the story of Susanna and the Three Children in the Furnace as truthful, he cites Baruch as one of the Prophets, he cites Sirach and Wisdom as "Scripture," and so forth. This is actually very typical of other writers who took Jerome's position of not recognizing the Apocrypha as canonical and not authoritative but continued to cite and refer to such writings as inspired "Scripture". Here are some examples from Athanasius, who had a position very similar to Jerome's:
"The sacred writers to whom the Son has revealed him, have given us a certain image from things visible, saying, 'Who is the brightness of his glory, and the expression of His person' (Hebrews 1:3) and again, 'For with you is the well of life, and in your light we shall see lights' (Psalm 36:9), and when the Word chides Israel, he says, 'You have forsaken the fountain of wisdom' (Baruch 3:12) and this fountain it is which says, 'They have forsaken me the fountain of living waters' (Jeremiah 2:13)." (Athanasius, Apology of the Nicene Faith, 2).
"And where the sacred writers say, 'Who exists before the ages,' and 'By whom he made the ages,? (Hebrews 1:2), they thereby as clearly preach the eternal and everlasting being of the Son, even while they are designating God himself. Thus, if Isaiah says, 'The everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth? (Isaiah 40:28) and if Susanna said, 'O everlasting God' (Daniel 13:42 = Susanna 42) and Baruch wrote, 'I will cry unto the everlasting in my days,' and shortly after, 'My hope is in the everlasting, that he will save you, and joy is come unto me from the Holy One' (Baruch 4:20, 22)..." (Athanasius, Discourses Against the Arians, 1.4).
"Fearless of the words in holy Scripture, 'A false witness shall not be unpunished? (Proverbs 19:5), and, 'The mouth that lies slays the soul' (Wisdom 1:11), we therefore are unable longer to hold our peace, being amazed at their wickedness and at the insatiable love of contention displayed in their intrigues" (Athanasius, Apology Against the Arians, 3).
"The Spirit also, who is in him, commands, saying, 'Offer the sacrifice of praise to God, and pay to the Lord your vows. Offer the sacrifice of righteousness, and put your trust in the Lord' (Sirach 18:17)." (Athanasius, Letter 19.5)
Hope this helps!