A religion with nothing to Celebrate

by eyeslice 92 Replies latest jw friends

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  Mary

  Reniaa said: negative reasoning and a cop out, I am not a jew we live by principle as christians and the scriptorial principle of no association with pagan practises, the burden of proof is on you to prove it isn't pagan and you cannot because it clearly is!

  No, it is not on me to prove anything of the kind. Since YOU are the one condemning the practice, the burden of proof is on YOU to be able to back up your claim that celebrating a birthday is displeasing to God and worthy of getting a person disfellowshippped. You clearly cannot come up with anything because you know full well that there is nothing in the bible that condemns the celebration of birthdays.

  I don't just look at scripture I look at themes of the bible and adoption of celebrations that are clearly from the world around the chosen people is very frowned upon especially if it becomes ritualistic and an act of worship.

  So I ask you again Reniaa: Why are Witnesses allowed to participate in certain practices that clearly had its roots in paganism? Why are you allowed to wear a wedding ring? Are you aware that the act of baptism is a pagan one and did not originate with Christianity? Why do you go through the ritualistic act of being dunked under water when it originated with the Egyptians?

  So I ask again...Are the witnesses wrong for not celebrating these festivals as this whole thread implies?

  No. If an individual Christian doesn't want to celebrate something, they're not wrong at all. What IS wrong, is that the Slobbering Body members have taken it upon themselves to be everyone's conscience and guide in life, telling them what is acceptable and what isn't, even though they have nothing in the scriptures to back up their claims. It's solely based on their warped viewpoint and obsessive desire to do anything to be seen as "different". The idea that a small group of men making decisions and enforcing their own viewpoint on 6.5 million other people is no different than what Adolf Hitler tried to do and goes against everything Jesus preached and taught.

  Instead of just reiterating what the Borganization says Reniaa, why don't you try actually reading what the scriptures say:

  "Who are you to pass judgment on someone else's servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
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  isaacaustin

  Mary, She is blinded by the WT. Regardless of how much logic she is shown she can not see it. The reason is this- she does not beleive what she beleives because it is in the bible. She beleives it because the governing body (whom she is convinced is God's channel of truth) says so.
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  mraimondi

  i feel the opposite...

  i am not a witness and yet i have always viewed holidays (before being a witness and of course during) - as a way of society itself to control its populace... and for people to validate themselves. I think we can have celebrations every day,...
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  reniaa

  isaac I cannot believe you are using romans 14 to justify celebrating a pagan feast day. basically saying if you put the lords name on it, it is okay that is loophole manipulation because it means you would allow anything just by putting Jesus's name on it.
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  purplesofa

  reniaa,

  you said this on another thread.

  When I go into a church with a cross over the altar, incense around it and people are kneeling in front of it and doing signs of cross on their foreheads, wearing them around there necks, touching them when praying, singing praise to the cross I have no doubt it is idolatry but lets try and nit pick here.

  I just read this that you posted on this thread.

  isaac I cannot believe you are using romans 14 to justify celebrating a pagan feast day. basically saying if you put the lords name on it, it is okay that is loophole manipulation because it means you would allow anything just by putting Jesus's name on it.

  How do you justify being in a church, maybe it's ok ...a loophole manipulation because it mean you would allow anything just by putting Jesus's name on it?

  purps
• 

  isaacaustin

  isaac I cannot believe you are using romans 14 to justify celebrating a pagan feast day. basically saying if you put the lords name on it, it is okay that is loophole manipulation because it means you would allow anything just by putting Jesus's name on it.

  My reply: Reniaa...more of your human, i mean Wt reasoning here....Paul makes his very broad, general statement regarding days. The gentiles had their days, many of which had pagan roots. He made very clear that if one uses a day to honor the Lord this is perfectly acceptable. It is the spririt in which it is done. Not some archaic origin that no longer has meaning. Perhaps you would see it as a loophole manipulation but that is not the case. Paul makes clear in his writings that an idol is nothing, lifeless. As long as your allegiance is to the WT you will be unable to see anything beyond what they let you and will continue to look silly as you cling to straws to defend them.
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  AllTimeJeff

  I think it fair to say that there is no explicit biblical command prohibiting Christmas, or most any holiday in the Western world.

  Because JW's use scriptures that condemn "worldliness", which they then take it upon themselves to define what is "worldly", you can pretty much call whatever you want that isn't a specific JW activity "worldly", and thus use a scripture or two to condemn it.

  So the fact remains: If it isn't a Governing Body sanctioned activity, it is "worldly" to a JW. THAT is the criteria. There is nothing else.

  In my view, to get in an argument with a JW using the bible to show that a holiday is not condemned is silly. Any JW is simply parroting the company line. They are duped into thinking that the bible DOES condemn holidays, when in fact, it is the GB that does so.

  Anywhoo, the point of this thread originally, which I wholeheartedly endorse, is that JW's are miserable people as a whole, restricted in what they can actually be happy about and celebrate, having to check in with Watchtowers, elders, and the GB for most everything. There is no real human sponatneous joy over everyday life to be found in JW land, only manufactered appluase at meetings and assemblies over meeting GB set goals and criteria.

  I feel sorry for any JW who is still misled by the controlling dogma of the Governing Body.
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  reniaa

  Sorry purps these day the only time I go into church is for weddings which is personal choice becasue it involves god's institution of marriage. Lets get this clear the building itself isn't a sin, like a party with food and suchlike isn't a sin. what makes a thing sinful is worshiping false Gods and celebrating pagan feast days. is a piece of wood an idol? No but if you carve it and start worshiping it is it an idol? Yes.

  Matthew 15:17-19 (New International Version)

  17 "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

  If I go into a church and just want to see it as a building I commit no sin, If I go into a church to take part in worship to a false god then I am commiting a sin out of my wishes my heart.
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  isaacaustin

  isaac I cannot believe you are using romans 14 to justify celebrating a pagan feast day. basically saying if you put the lords name on it, it is okay that is loophole manipulation because it means you would allow anything just by putting Jesus's name on it

  My reply: Reniaa, quite telling is the fact that you see the Christian freedom Paul afforded Christians as a loophole of manipulation. You show you do not have a Christian-trained conscience as you seem to have on your mind how to one can manipulate things instead of the freedom Paul mentions here. Because you are subject to using this sort of maniplulation does not mean Christians do.
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  reniaa

  christmas/Yuletide is not a christian celebration isaac it is pagan NOW, probs 90% of those that celebrate do not even give Jesus a thought they are more worried about making their kids know santa will give them a present. If it was truly a day to Jesus it would be that to 100% not just the few Christians that try and cling to the lie of his birth to do all the pagan rituals involved in Christmas.

  Do you think Jesus wants recognition by pagan practises that were originally dedicated to other gods? and are still done to santa a non-existant Person that is coming to be worshiped as a god by non-christians?

  these were and are unclean practises to Pagan Gods why would doing them to Jesus make them clean?

  lying is a unclean practise in the bible but it's okay when you dedicate the lying to Jesus?

  You don't think when children learn about all these 'lies' that okay because they make christmas fun for the kids a 'fairytale fun day' that Jesus whom who you mesh with all this won't be similarily viewed as a a fairytale and lie by them?

  Many times there are examples of Jehovah's people converting those who had become paganised back to pure worship. In every case the very idea of retaining the icons and the celebrations but rededicating them to Jehovah is simply not an option. They always removed all the religious items and completely destroyed them. They never ever ever rededicated anything to Jehovah.

  We are told to give up pagan worldly ways not give them a make-over and rededicate them to jesus to make them acceptable.

  reniaa