Hypocrasy?? Could it be?

Seeking Knowledge

Hi All, I hope I'm posting this in the right subject area:

Had a "discussion" with my ex the other day, in which I asked him to stop telling our son that birthdays/pumpkins/santa and whatever else were "bad" as he was more or less telling our son that my beliefs are wrong. He's JW and I'm not. Of course he says he's only teaching him "truth from the bible" I asked him to point out to me where in the blble it says you can't celebrate these things, he couldn't.

But he came up with some interesting comments, thought I'd throw them out there for an opinion so I can go back & ask him about them. Before I start, this is a man who was out of the cult for awhile (hence our son) and decided the pressure was too much, got back in and immediately got married & is now expecting another child. Together the 2 of them are trying to put on the "perfect family" show and teaching my son there is no other way than theirs. Needless to say, I'm not happy about this.

First off...I reminded him that before our son was born we discussed why he wouldn't be raised a JW and that we would expose him to both our religions (this is before I knew anything about it)....I told him that I didn't want him ramming the JW down his throat so that he would feel that was the only way he could be....his response?

"I wouldn't do that, if he decides to be a Catholic, that's ok with me"

Second...I asked him how he could try to raise our son as JW when I wasn't of that "faith" as that would require our son to believe that we (me and his sister and our side of the family) would be "murdered by God" and we were basically to be ignored, etc as we were not of "the truth" and should be treated as such. He shook his head & got a little offronted & said "Oh no, I would never do that, it's his decision" He said the same thing about having him baptised, said he would never do that, in fact looked like he'd just sucked on a whole lemon when I mentioned it.

Those are things that stick out the most that I remember of our conversatoin. Everything I've read on the JW religion leads me to believe he is full of it. ( Heck, everything he says anymore leads me to believe that, but that's not the issue right now.) Am I wrong to think that he's full of it??

I was able to throw my limited understanding of the JW ways back at him regarding these 2 specific items, and I must say, he was shocked, he certainly wasn't prepared for it (felt kinda nice to see the reaction! ) but I need some possible guidance for any future interraction with him.

Thanks!

SK

Gill

It's like this 'Seeking Knowledge': put yourself in his shoes. To him you're dead meat walking. Armageddon's on the horizon coming 'any day now' and he doesn't want to see his son's body on that pile of rotting corpses just destroyed by his God. So, that being the case, it's not going to make too much difference to him what reasonings you might come up with. HE HAS TO SAVE HIS SON!

Just imaging that Armageddon were to arrive on the day of your son's birthday and you had all your celebration gear up, balloons, cards, pressies, cake, what would the angel of God think! You'd be in for it no two ways about it. Do you see his problem.

It's a BIG one isn't it. That's the problem all us ex JW's have with our relatives.

Good LucK!

_Atlas

Ask him if he has considered Romans 14:5 carefully and without letting the WTS drive his imagination around. Do not allow him to try to spin the argument to the drinking and eating pseudo explanation because the chapter clearly applies to judging in general.

At any rate? whatever rationalization he may come up with, you can always ask him if he REALLY believes the context was not addressing celebrations in general or if he is just repeating the party line.

Romans 14:1, 10 describe the issue having to do with "different beliefs and doubts" one of those being (and not limited to) culinary habits and festive days.

Hopefully he will see there is a biblical supported approach he has never considered before and will drop it. (Romans 14 always does the trick ?cause even the JWS feel the weight of guilt when they are shown to be violating a well known Christian principle even with the WTS support)

Frannie Banannie

(((SK))) If you wish to relieve your son of the torment of imagining that you're walking "dead meat," using the NWT bible (jdub version), simply show him where the scriptures say "God is love." Then ask him if a God that is love would kill most people to prove a point. After all, we're supposedly made in his image. Would we do it? Let your son know that doctrine (cause it's strictly a jdub doctrine, not scriptural) is false.

And if you're wise, you'll get your son an appointment with a psychologist to get it confirmed that it should be court-ordered that his Dad NOT teach your son the JW doctrines.

Frannie

Seeking Knowledge

Once again Frannie, good advice thank you. I am in the process of getting our son into counseling. I've already prepared for the inevitable with my attorney and I'm taking her prescribed course. I have gathered so much information to point out to anyone who is not JW "smart" as to why this needs to be done.

Gill, appreciate your honesty, I know he's a liar and he's going to do whatever it takes to "throw me off the scent", the good thing is, I no longer believe anything that comes out of his mouth!

Atlas....THANK YOU....I will keep that in mind, I love to watch his head explode! The more I know the less he can use!

SK

xochsi

Ask him if he has considered Romans 14:5 carefully and without letting the WTS drive his imagination around. Do not allow him to try to spin the argument to the drinking and eating pseudo explanation because the chapter clearly applies to judging in general.
At any rate? whatever rationalization he may come up with, you can always ask him if he REALLY believes the context was not addressing celebrations in general or if he is just repeating the party line.
Romans 14:1, 10 describe the issue having to do with "different beliefs and doubts" one of those being (and not limited to) culinary habits and festive days.
Hopefully he will see there is a biblical supported approach he has never considered before and will drop it. (Romans 14 always does the trick ?cause even the JWS feel the weight of guilt when they are shown to be violating a well known Christian principle even with the WTS support)

This is awesome advice as I had two JW's visit me today. We discussed birthdays. I asked them to just talk to me from the Bible ONLY regarding birthdays. They cited the two b-days mentioned in the Bible where bad things happened. I asked if it was ok to celebrate wedding anniversaries, and they said yes and showed me the scripture regarding Jesus attending a wedding feast and turned water into wine. They said that marriage is God's institution and anniversaries could be observed. I pointed out that Jesus was not attending an anniversary party, but a wedding feast.

I asked if they gave baby showers to pregnant JW mothers. Well of course they do.

So, let me get this straight, I can give an unborn baby gifts in honor of its birth, ALSO "GOD'S INSTITUTION", but never again celebrate its birthdate thereafter? They were silent, then said something about progressive learning and the light getting brighter and brighter, to which I replied, yes the light gets brighter and brighter but the truth does not get truer and truer.

Then I said, instead of us disputing whether its ok with God to celebrate brithdays or wedding anniversaries, especially when God did not see fit to give direct counsel on the matter, as with fornication, adultery, idolatry, stealing, etc . . . let's just read Romans 14:1-10

He pointed out that the person observing days was "weak in faith", to which I countered, which is a matter of opinion as the Scripture clearly states. If it is your opinion that person is weak in faith for observing certain festivals, just remember that his worship to God is just a acceptable as yours. I said in otherwords, it's your problem, it's your choice, and you should not for you to judge my relationship with god based on works. I also said that for you to insist that my relationship with God is not as strong as yours simply because I celebrate birthdays, is to take away my personal relationship with God and my accountability to Him, making it YOUR business, and now I have to stand and answer to you as the mediator that stands between me and the mediator, Jesus, the mediator of God? They left perplexed, lost and promising to "do more research" about B-days.

Stand your ground, use only the Bible and don't let him mess up your son with JW-ism.

xochsi

bebu

which I replied, yes the light gets brighter and brighter but the truth does not get truer and truer.

xochsi, loved your comment! Gonna keep that one earmarked for sure. Great comments, too, about baby showers, weddings, and Rom. 14. Those really nail the birthday debate well.

bebu

xochsi

And if you're wise, you'll get your son an appointment with a psychologist to get it confirmed that it should be court-ordered that his Dad NOT teach your son the JW doctrines.

Is that really possible?

xochsi

I also found an instance in the book of Job, chapter 3:1-19. Jobs children seem to be celebrating a birthday when the tornado came and collapsed the house killing them all. The Satan's tornado did its job on Job's kids, not because they were celebrating a birthday, but because Jehovah apparently gave Satan permission to kill them as a test for Job. Nevertheless, Job and his family DID seem to celebrate birthdays. Job's burnt offering to Jehovah the next morning was not to atone for the sin of celebrating a birthday, but just incase his brats were sinning while having the party, " That is the way Job would do always."

xochsi

Frannie Banannie

Xochsi, yes, it is possible. The judge can order that he have supervised visitation ONLY........to prevent him from messin' with the kids head. (smirk)

Hypocrasy?? Could it be?

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