I married a worldly woman 30 years ago and can blame all the Christmas stuff on her. My family blames her for my exit too. My wife said my aunt told her that in an indirect way.
I really don't care what they think.
Ken P.
busted by a fake evergreen tree
by cab1000 33 Replies latest jw friends
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waiting
An elder and his wife run a restaurant in Summerville, SC - in an ancient two-story home looking straight out of Gone With the Wind. I was mesmerized when I saw all her decorating (it was in summer) - and it occurred to me that she'd decorate the same way (a LOT) during the Thanksgiving/Christmas season. I asked her what she did to get around the holidays......yet heavily decorate her restaurant?
"I do *seasonal* decorating." And then she smiled. Smart woman.
I've been doing that for years, but had a truly Christmas decorated little tree a couple of years ago. Made my husband too nervous (his mother lives about 2 houses away - but never comes over - but she *might*). So, I put my little fake tree on my back porch last weekend, putting apples, birds, baskets, snowmen, etc., on it with other plants around with stuff. He said he'd quote Brother S........ about "seasonal decorating" if any of his jw family said anything.
I do appreciate that jw's are taught & react so strickly for THEIR religious freedom - and have no respect for another's religious freedoms. And that jw's are a cult or at the least, very cult-like. Meaning, some of them can't open their minds at this time.
On the other hand, bigots, racists, Nazi's, etc., could be deemed cult-like also. Would we bend to their beliefs? I suspect not. We probably would request that they do NOT bring their beliefs into our house, remaining silent in respect for our home. But then, we most likely would not go to their house if they had their beliefs hanging up (flags, etc.)
So I guess it remains a personal, family, thing. And it's always a pain in the butt this time of year for a lot of us.
(((((((((((((hugs to all those with jw family they still love)))))))))))))))
waiting
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cab1000
Vit,
I suppose your right, it is time to make up my mind, however, since most of my family and all we really care about are in the troof, how do you actually decide? I would like to lead a normal life, if for my children alone, but I want them to lead a normal life with FAMILY involved. I think that either way its not really cool, holidays with NO FAMILY, or Family with NO HOLIDAYS. This choice is just too difficult.
I would think, but do not know, that if a catholic born and raised person, chose not to be a catholic when he became an adult, his parents and entire catholic family would not shun him, even if he became a J.W.! I guess I could go on all day about the unfairness of it all, but it comes down to Do I want to lose out on family, or lead my life in the way I want to fully? Who can choose that? Maybe its selfish of us, maybe its selfish of them, maybe both. They have greater numbers.
Theres a post on here now talking about how you should make friends BEFORE you cut out of the borg. How true, but family is family, much harder to replace them. That is why so many of us are fading, not just quitting. Guess I will go on "fading"....
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crinklestein
That is the perfect way to look at it. It's their problem, not yours. You are an independant person with free will so do what you feel is correct for your life. If they have a problem with it then screw em. Ask them what chance you have of them changing their lifestyle because of you not agreeing with it. Then, after they say there is no chance in hell of that happening, ask them why you should change to their will.
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willyloman
Nominating LovesDubs for "Post of the Year." Poignant words that no doubt resonate with many of us, such as these:
literally went into depression from Thanksgiving until about Jan 2. Watched in dismay the people having company on our street, bringing gifts into a house filled with laughter, music, lights and wonderful smells. Children dressed up in their finest, and going to Christmas Eve services and holding a candle. I cried alone in my car where I COULD play the Christmas carols and sing and no one would see me.
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Dansk
Hi Cab,
I've seen the photograph you posted and the tree and surroundings are very Christmasy indeed. You said:
We have had it up since late fall.
I found that quite humorous as Christmas seems to be coming earlier and earlier every year (guess we love it, eh ). Wonder if your stepdad thought you'd left it up from last year?
As has already been said, it's your house so you can jolly well do what you like in it. You kindly offer to put your stepdad up but he doesn't approve of the "decor". And now he's lost touch with his grandkids as well. He was running, like all JWs, on automatic Borg response.
One day all JWs will realise they've been duped. It's just so sad about the heartbreak in the meantime...............
Wishing you and all your family true happiness,
Ian
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Fleur
I went through my phase of excusing Witness people and blaming the "organization" too. I thought about it and I have not really been harmed by any "organization". All my scars were made by people. People I used to care about so I was vulnerable to them. Now I am holding the individuals responsible and I am not excusing them any longer and I am notifying them that it's not okay and I am not shifting responsibility over to any business. They get off easy when they are not held responsible.
The "Organization" is an abstract idea. I'm not aware of one person who can define and identify the components. It's like a cloud . . . almost not real . . . it's just a concept we were sold. People are real. Rejection is real and abuse is real. GaryBAmen to that.
(((((((((lovesdubs)))))))))) and ((((((((((Cab))))))))))
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Redneckgurl
Cab,
Wow, does this hit home with me! My husband and I decided early last year that we were not going to be JW's anymore. We were in turmoil about what to do though, should we DA ourselves so we didn't get DF if we were caught doing something we shouldn't? (like celebrate our kids birthdays, halloween, xmas, etc.) My parents live in the same town, and we are on a high-profile street in town, so anyone driving by our home could see if we had decorations up and such. We decided to just wait, we decorated for Xmas last year, and what do you know, the witnesses came by in service on a Saturday morning, looked through the window and saw all the twinkling lights and the tree and tried not to look shocked, but my husband and I knew it would only be a matter of time before the Elders wanted a visit with us. We went ahead and typed out our letters, because we knew that if we didn't we would be DF'd anyway. Too many people had seen what we were doing, and it was obvious that we were acting out a DF offense. When the elders came over, we told them we preferred not to DA ourselves, and just not go to meetings anymore. They said that if we continued to do holidays without any regrets that we would be DF'd anyway. So, we said ok, it's our choice, here's the letters.
My parents still talk to me, my mom much more than my dad. My dad only talks to me when he wants to come over for a free haircut, but we make the most of it and laugh and talk just like before, till the next time. I am lucky, my husbands parents don't talk to him at all unless they are calling about a family emergency or something. His father wouldn't come in our home the last time they stopped by either, he sat in the car, and his mom came in. His dad didn't "feel right" about being in the home of DA people. Like he would be plagued or something.
Ironically, our DA was announced on Christmas Day 2003.
You can't do both. We tried, and it didn't work. If we lived out in the country, or were new in town, and didn't know all the JW's in the area, maybe it could have been different, but it wasn't something we could hide, to spare us the loss of our family relationships. My husband and I actually are much happier now, don't hide anything, and have a freedom we never had before. It took a while, my husband is still struggling with certain feelings when we do things that are considered "wrong", but we are FREE and together. Sounds like you and your wife are supporting eachother's decision too. You are so fortunate that this is your case. So many others have to struggle with their spouse when they figure things out.
I wish you the best on your decisions. Just stay close to eachother, it won't be easy, but you will get through it. I don't post too much, but last year, when I starting going through hard emotions to deal with, this board was a great source of support.
--Redneckgurl (Krissy)
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Mary
You do realize you can get disfellowshipped for celebrating christmas, if you want to fade quietly this is one thing you just cannot get away with.
Here's something I'd like to ask an elder:
Me: So is Charles Russell in heaven ruling with Jesus right now?
Elder: Yes, of course. He was one of the 144,000.
Me: Now he celebrated Christmas when he was alive though right?
Elder: Ya, but............well, things were different then. They didn't realize-------
Me: (interupting him): Yes he did realize it was a pagan holiday. He admitted that it was originally a pagan holiday, but it didn't have any bearing on us today so he said we "might as well join the rest of the world" in celebrating Christmas. So you can't say that "the Light was getting brighter and brighter", because he already knew it had been a pagan holiday..........so if he's ruling in heaven as we speak, then obviously Jesus didn't hold it against him for celebrating His birthday on December 25th............... If Jesus rewarded someone with heavenly life when they celebrated Christmas, knowing full well it was a pagan holiday, then WHY are people being disfellowshipped today for doing the exact same thing???
I wonder what their response would be to that??
I SHUDDA BEEN A FREAKING LAWYER!!!
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vitty
Cab1000
I wasnt critizing ( I cant spell) cos im fading too, only 6 months and am in a dilemmer also
I its so bad that we cant hold our hands up and say "I just dont want this anymore,but im still the same person. I am still your sister, mother and child " but now we are dead
All because we DISAGREE and want a tree!
If you want your family be careful !!!!!!!!