Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune 160 Replies latest jw friends

  • formerout
    formerout

    Czar,

    Quit while you're ahead with FBB and Rune. And from where I stand, you ARE ahead.

    I'm not saying this to insult either Rune or FBB but I think they have said enough here to warrant an observation from me. They both seem to think that their reality right now is..... well.... real! On the other hand they would both admit that their "reality" five years ago was different than it is now. They have changed, not the universe.... them.

    Yet they do not seem to want to accept that despite their strong convictions in life right now, these will change again. They certainly don't seem to want any other people telling them anyway. I find it ironic yet very telling of the true nature of certain humans..... that the people that are the most sure of themselves show to others that the actual fact is the opposite.

    Brad

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    God could perform a supernatural act that could be verified either by photography or measurement, and I would believe. God could communicate directly with me, in a verifiable (double blind, etching into rock, etc.) fashion, and I would believe.

    If the above sounds like I'm asking too much of god, please realize that he/she/it could also do those things in an unverifiable manner, and so long as the words or supernatural acts were a) helpful to, and showing a creators insight into, humanity, and b) consistant, and c) done whenever humans really needed them (and not just to prove a superiority of one human or group at a particular time), I would believe.

    I guess I take a human-centric standard of proof for god, in that I demand that god be relevant to all humans equally. Any way you slice it spin it or dice it, Calvanism IS arrogance. Then again, maybe there is a god and it is a straightup asshole; but I doubt it.

  • Sunchild
    Sunchild

    Czarofmischief:

    Your spiritual Proof, which is what you are actually asking for, will come when and where it is most beneficial for you. If you can slide through your whole life without experiencing it, you probably will. But if you actually NEED the proof, then it will happen. It will be something you won't expect. Something that if you tried to explain to someone else, it would sound silly and trite. But in your heart you will know it to be what it is.

    There are no words in any known language which can express how profoundly right I think you are. If there's a legal limit to "right," you're about to be arrested.

    That's exactly how it was for me. I've written about it on my Web site, and I know that no one who doesn't want to believe in God (or just the Christian God) will take it seriously, and I don't mind. Other people's spiritual choices aren't my business unless they want it to be. But my own life hasn't been the same since I got my "proof." Since then, it's been a journey; a lot of it is God putting me in situations that force me to confront my past and certain aspects of myself that I haven't dealt with before. And whenever I look back, it's eerie how some things just fall into place, like someone's been planning it from the beginning. I'm looking forward to meeting the real me.

    ~Rochelle.

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Sorry have seen that people have posted but post this before so will maybe answer if whatever :

    Now that's the question CZAR ... that makes me think about the fact that we don't surf on the same wave. I have to take responsability here about the missunderstanding !!! I'm sorry, it's a "sick" professional trouble !!!

    But I understand now why you were insisting so much (LOL ... I'm sorry) ... I disconnected with you ... I need something new or put into an other perspective to feel the need to enquiere ... (but we bashed both sides)

    common bases were you talking about? I'm confused

    What we can deal with (love, understanding, strategy) ... it's still mistic that' why it's so hard to talk about it cause the human being is irrational when he have to face the base of our SICKNESS = FEAR OF LOSING

    So Ok ... from the begining most exposed THE "WhyS" ... to what he answered ... ok I understand this to some extand, but basically what people are going into (giving to it) is too much - and we already know it doesn't help, even worse ... why don't we just focus on what we can deal with. (basically that's what I understood) that's a new question to go further on ...

    So of course you if you stay into the "WhyS" (religiously) we ain't going nowhere (and we know already at least the biggest part of it (you told us - it's listed) ... It's only interesting if you put something new or into an other perspective ... of course we can say the same things more than a 1000 times but there is a time to come up with the real WHY's (on our common bases) again FEAR OF LOSING

    So then if you don't want to talk about the same stuff well ... (I understand why you did insist that much from the title) but you have at least 2 ways (more = add it here) to bring something (known and that can be listed to be analysed at the time or original to be analysed at the time either by anyone who can come up with something in there own way !!!) ...

    Human being can be rational ... But for that, he needs to think about it for good and not being bond by FEAR ... (any kind - and we all have our specific fears ...)

    I can name one as a MAJOR ONE : LOSING

    • LIFE (not our choice we can only focus on security ... what after death ? we don't know anyway no proof)
    • ANY Loss that is important to you - that can be as simple as that in a discussion for instance: scared to be ridiculous ... who care's it funny ! you can even do it on purpose and you did CZAR (in some matter) - I can tell that I took some risk here too and can easely appear quite (if not totally) foolish when - , when I say things like "it's simple" ... LOL ... but what I mean there is that to me it's just logical - then you have to deal with the human failures)

    Now people know that's something foolish can become true lets take one (you can go very far even on realistic bases and that's what people do not understand and get to queek negative about ... YOU GOTTA BELIEVE SOMETIME ... more over when it worth it)

    Human side : WW2 (if I do remember well) German and English battlefield ... It's Christmas they are tired ... they got enough ... They END UP SHARING the night and exchanging gift ... SOMEONE DID COME UP WITH THE STUPID IDEE TO TRY TO DO THAT in a very HARD CONTEXT ... they did it ! it's have been possible because that night they found 2 commons reasons (ENOUGH/COOL).

    You want to try some stuff or not ? ... Is it a stupid IDEA to try to found how we can get were we want on common bases, needs and means ?

    We are divided in many ways sure, but we can help ourself on common bases : SECURITY (against the loss) it seems to be the base

    Whatever you want ... we can dream and we can win little scale / big scale : SOMETIME YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN REALISTIC DREAMS instead of waiting for Gods solution, and moreover now that we a more aware, that we have more means and moreover to communicate easer at any scale ....

    business side : When Bugsy said I want to put a CASINO in the middle of a desert where a + theres no water supply yet, ... (well I'm sure a few did laught at him) - WHAT HAPPEN ? support / means = DONE and well SUCESS, It standed just because the LAND COST NOTHING and the STATE WAS OK For GAMBLING BUSINESS 2 MAJOR ADVANTAGES. They believed in it, and did it.

    Current and common means can bring a LOT at any scale (it's not a secret ... it does exist, it's just logical) - (Logical dreams = 50/50 it's all about the ENERGY (mystic somehow !!!)

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    No sure this is clear too :

    What I mean globaly in saying all that, is that sometimes (and more over when it is about fear) only a pleasant perspective (that you have to put in the front), can make people feel (at first) that they can do it (this or this way) can get what they need and way more over EASIER ...!

    but to the answer to Why Why Why : To me it's at its bases fear of losing (as we know that we can die at anytime - it feels good, to feel like you'll get another chance ...) Why not ? but lets take some mesures for our own good instead of only focusing on gods solutions and getting negative about logical solutions.

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    So ??? ... something new or different, more elaborate on a/further specific matter(s) eventually on the matter to you ?

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface
    Formerout : They certainly don't seem to want any other people telling them anyway. I find it ironic yet very telling of the true nature of certain humans..... that the people that are the most sure of themselves show to others that the actual fact is the opposite.

    uh ??? .... What or who were you talking about ? FB(B) ... "Wasn't me" (I don't remember who's signing that Shaggy maybe but Ali G does use it a lot)

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief
    I guess I take a human-centric standard of proof for god, in that I demand that god be relevant to all humans equally. Any way you slice it spin it or dice it, Calvanism IS arrogance. Then again, maybe there is a god and it is a straightup asshole; but I doubt it.

    Never confuse good with "nice". Not the same.

    So ??? ... something new or different, more elaborate on a/further specific matter(s) eventually on the matter to you ?

    Sorry, my show ran this weekend - I've been really busy; working as well. But you know how that is!

    I think you are actually closer to being on the same wave as me than you may think. You emphasize the need to dream, the need to overcome fear, the need to work hard and sweat to build something - these are indeed common bases for us.

    I'm an actor in my spare time. Actually, it takes up more time than almost anything else. It takes a lot of work to do it. I have to study my lines. I have to overcome stage fright. I have to reason out subtexts. I have to arrive early and stretch out. I have to do my job. I have to help other actors do theirs. I have to be on my toes and cover when mistakes are made on stage.

    I can say with modesty that I'm pretty good - not great, but solid, reliable, and maybe a junior journeyman in terms of the craft itself - a reliable community theater type of fellow.

    When the day of the show arrives, I, having done all the work that I could have done to make the show a success, say a prayer. Not for success, but for courage. For the things that I can't do. And to have a good time. And in a spiritual, very real way, I just feel the presence of my God, watching what I'm doing. The energy flows through me. The Catholics have a doctrine about being "called" to a profession; God wants his people to do everything and anything - and I feel that I am called to the theater. When I am up there, I am fulfilling my purpose for being here on the earth.

    Do things go wrong? Yes. Do I drop a line, miss an entrance, am I guarded from hecklers? Yes, yes, and no. But I can deal with all of them; and then still feel that sense of spiritual completion when I'm done. Inner peace, if you will.

    Does this help you to see that I also realize that there are logical, practical solutions to problems on earth? Building a set or rigging a light takes a practical mindset; if an actor can't make it, somebody needs to take his role. But the overarching reason for all of this practical activity is a spiritual one, at least for me.

    I'm not waiting for God's solution, nor do I find "God" to be an excuse for laziness; I'm sorry if that's what I somehow conveyed. I have strong political ideas, ambitions regarding business, and a family to take care of. All these things require strong action on my part - initiative, creativity, and optimism. But the spiritual aspects give me initiative, give me the confidence that the future will be better than the past.

    One of my strongest reasons for opposing the Watchtower, and its bastard child E-Watchman, is that the apocalyptic mindset demands inactivity in all the areas of life that matter most. It is my belief that we are judged at least partially on how we answered God's call in our lives; and I doubt many of us are called to bang on empty houses 90 hours a month, or to sit in dark houses highlighting insipid sentences in crudely illustrated magazines.

    So our common base, I think, is that whatever our perspective is, it should motivate us to action, to create, to struggle against the tides in our lives. I just think that the spiritual aspects can be a powerful catalyst in somebody's life for the better.

    CZAR

  • formerout
    formerout

    FBF,

    Actually, I tried to go back and edit my "FBB" mistake so that it read "FBF" but I could not. I don't know why.

    It doesn't mean, (just because I doubled up the wrong letter while typing), that I don't still stand behind what I said. You can take it or leave it, it's up to you. Czar seems to be able to relate to you better, so maybe I will leave my opinion (which I feel is very close to his) to be presented to you through him instead.

    Take care,

    Brad

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    CZAR ;

    So our common base, I think, is that whatever our perspective is, it should motivate us to action, to create, to struggle against the tides in our lives. I just think that the spiritual aspects can be a powerful catalyst in somebody's life for the better.

    Yeah ... I agree

    Formerout :

    It's ok ... I have no problem with you ... (it was an answer - an opportunity from what was written : just that ...) nothing personnal

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