Do believers and unbelievers benefit from each other?

by Narkissos 26 Replies latest jw friends

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  Narkissos

  I was thinking of this today. We all live in religiously divided societies: in France unbelievers are probably the majority, in the US believers are. But the minority in both cases is still influential. On this board we often meet disagreement on this issue -- yet I think we mostly get along fine.

  Sometimes we get upset at the "other side"'s influence on our way of life. We also would all readily admit that there are very nice people on the "other side". That's not what I want to address.

  Can you think of any ways the "other side"'s worldview positively affects yours? That not being able to "take it for granted" (as we would in a Church or a Skeptic club) helps us to think and live better?

  Isn't any faith more "spiritual" when it cannot be assumed as a universal truth? Isn't any atheistic worldview more open, and richer, when it has to take into account the spiritual experiences, beliefs and rituals of all kinds of believers? Did you personally benefit from the "other side"'s view?
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  rune

  No, I can't. Believing in the endless possibilities of what could be doesn't leave a lot of headroom for improvement
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  frankiespeakin

  I feel that all beleif systems are flawed in some way because they make assumptions somewhere.

  I would say that the world is what it is and no body knows the answer why. I think I benifit from those that beleive in God,,in the same way I benifit from those that don't beleive in God. The benifits are equal perhaps with the problems.

  We are all human we are the same in so many ways we just use different thoughts to do a lot of the same things. A person who beleives in God can be just as good or bad as some one who doesn't beleive.

  I think I'm neutral?
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  Pole

  I think I've said it before on this forum somewhere, but what counts for me is not what people believe but how they came to believe in one thing or another.
  
  
  If I meet an atheist who has always been an atheist and never gave any thought to the issue, then I can't find the belief system of such a person interesting, even though I'm pretty much in agreement with his/her final conclusions (also an atheist).
  
  
  If on the other hand I meet a believer whose belief system has developed gradually and who has seriously considered a number of "options" then even if we are in disagreement I do enjoy having discussions with the person. Otherwise than having a nice chat how else can you "benefit"?
  
  
  At the end of the day I tend to think I'm the one who's right :))), but we usually reach a stage at which we realize it doen't matter a thing what we believe.
  
  
  I've met a few believers recently that I benefitted from in this way. I think they were LittleToe type of believers if I were to give an example from this forum (just judging by his posts).... :). Hope LittleToe doesn't mind this comparison.
  
  Pole
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  seattleniceguy

  Interesting post, Narkissos.

  I think you make a strong point that having an opposite camp forces a person to think about his or her own positions. For contrasting example, Pole mentions the atheist who simply accepts that view because he has always accepted it. I think a person who has been forced to think about an issue carefully is in a better position in the long run, and the existence of the opposite side certainly helps in that regard.

  That said, I think that extremists (such as the Witnesses) don't do anyone, least of all themselves, any favors. Their existence is not helpful, only destructive.

  But I certainly think that spiritual people of the LittleToe camp (to borrow an effective icon - thanks Pole, and hope you don't mind, LT) contribute to the mosaic of understanding that forms the human psyche. I may not agree with the camp, but then again, when was 100% agreement ever fun?

  SNG
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  frankiespeakin

  I think that beleif is a natural part of the human species,,with a mind that fears death,,as our inteligence evolved we became very focused on pain, our mind uses the past memory to guide it to try and change the future to be more pain free.

  The mind remembers what death is and feels pain of fear(fear of death evolutionary process),,and so the mind has made up defenses to keep pain less and one of those defenses is to beleive that life continues on some how after death. That is one reason why people accept a beleif system,, to relieve pain of fear of death.

  So why am I saying that? Because to understand why a person beleives to me,,, is more important than what a person beleives (since all beleifs are false but beliefs in them are true (a Cretan told me that)).

  I was a beleiver and so I can ask myself: Why did I beleive? I think the correct answer should be very liberating,, I may have part of answer,,from my own inward examination,,but I still have way too many different prejudices to see it clearly,, or may be I haven't spent enough time with the question to know.
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  redhotchilipepper

  I would say it is possible that they can benefit from one another. If the non believer can respect the one that believes and the other can respect the one that is an unbeliever. I personally don't see this very often in day to day living. It's a nice concept, though!
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  frankiespeakin

  I would also like to say this about the metaphor "benefit"

  It is a human term which discribes us petty good. We always must find some type"benefits" if no benefits we loose interest. Is this good or bad? or is it both,, I can only see things from a certain point of view the "I" or if I broaden out myself to think more collectively "I" will be interested in benefit for the whole collective. But why stop there why not let it be interest in the benefit of the whole universe.

  I don't think one can will this type of awareness,, a force of will would be a reinforcement of the "I" one has to just let it happen. This is not my beleif,, it is my assumption,,which I view as a theory,,to be proven wrong
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  Tactful skeptics can do a great service to believers. The questions and arguments they present to believers, can help believers to modify some of their beliefs, so that their paradigm is less discordant with reality. It hopefully can help eliminate alot of superstitions, and get the believers focussed on the few aspects of the religion that may actually benefit society. Rather than squabbling over unprovable details that only divides people.

  Personally, as an agnostic, seeing all the believers about me, has made me question what do they sense or perceive that I don't? I'm not so interested in the details because here's no way to disprove or prove them. But their living by a moral code, has encouraged me to be more introspective, to reflect on my actions and motives, and to... how can I put it?....find the better part of me. Still looking.
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  prophecor

  I'm not one who is so closed minded, that I won't allow for someone who does not believe as I do, to automatically be judged as wrong, infact, because I was willing to look at the world of the witnesses thru different eyes, those of you here, I was allowed to come to a more accurate understanding regarding the beliefs of the WTBTS.

  Now that the dread has been minimized regarding my questioning of the Society, now that I no longer view the WTBTS as being the monopoly on absolute truth, I've been granted the opportunity to seek out information that I would have normally associated with the teaching of demons. I no longer deem the other side as having nothing of value to contribute to my understanding or being unworthy of a listening ear .

  I've been able to receive a broader understanding of the scriptures because I won't leave myself to a mind thats locked down in past superstitions, false stories and assumptions that the WTBTS has cultivated in me.

  My uncle, bless his soul, used to quote a very famous verse to me from Stevie Wonder's song " Supertitious " , when trying to push my JW propaganda on him, he'd say to me...

  " When You Believe in Things You Don't Understand, You Suffer "

  So true is that statement, because for years I believed, almost blindly, with no way of checking out the facts, at least no way without sacrificing your soul. We were always told to examine the religion we came from, with not much need of examining the one to which we were headed, but once inside the seemingly safe cocoon-like atmosphere of the WTBTS, there was no room for questioning the history of Jehovah's Witnesses, nor did there even appear to be a need to, because of their effectiveness at indoctrination.

  I now, however, have been given a new lease on life, a severing from the fear, my mind no longer being held as hostage, to mental, emotional and spiritual terrorism. I'm no longer affraid of the dark.

  Because I struggled to see things from the other side, I'm now able to see light, and quite possibly, for the first time.