something in crisis of conscience i didnt know about... that shocked me

by candidlynuts 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    on page 164- 166 , in the chapter titled " double standards" subheading " two sorts of weights for measuring"

    The administration of the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses many decades ago decided that, because of the exsisting law, Jehovah's Witnesses in Mexico would present themsevles , not as a religious organization, but as a "cultural" orginazation. The local corporation there formed " La Torre del Vigia,was so registered with the government of Mexico(footnote). So, Jehovah's Witnesses in Mexico for many decades did not speak of having religious meetings but of having " cultural" meetings. At these meetings they had no prayers or songs, and this was also true of their larger assemblies. (bold emphasis mine) When t hey engaged in door-to-door activity they carried only WatchTower literature (which they said the Watch Towwer Society provided them as an " aid to them in their cultural activity"). They did not carry the Bible while in such activity since that would identify them as engaging in religious activity. A group of Witnesses in a given area was n ot called a " congregation" but a " company." They did not speak of having baptisms but did nthe same thing under the name of performing the " symbol".
    This "double talk" was not done because of living in some totalitarian country that took repressive measaures agains freedom of worship. It was done largely to avoid having to comply with government regulations regarding the ownershiop of property by religious organizations. Nor should it be thought that the arragnement was something originating with and decided upon by the Mexican Witnesses themselves; it was an arrangement worked out and put into effect by the international headquarters at Brooklyn. (bold emphasis mine)
    It is interesting to contrast the deliberate elimination of prayers and songs at WItness meetings in Mexico with the action of the Watchtower Society in the United States, where they are willing to fight case after case all the way to the Supreme Court of the country other than give up certain practices, such as offering the literature from door to door without a license and without having to register with the police, the right to use sound cars, distribute literature on street corners, and many other practices which are covered by Constitutional rights. The orginization did not want to relinquish any of these things. It fought to hold on to them, even though these particular practices are certainly not things that were done by early Christians in the firest centry and hence cannot be counted as among primary Christian Practices.
    But congegational prayer was a primary religious practice in early Christian meetings and has been among servants of God from time immemorial. The Mexcian Governmetn said nothing against prayer at religious meetings. Jehovah's WItnesses , however, were instructed to say that their meetings were NOT religous. (caps mine) Few things could be viewed as more completely related to worship of God., as more purely spiritual , than prayer. When an imperial decree in Persia prohibited prayer to anyone except to the king for a period of thirty days, the prophet Daniel considered the issue so crucial that he risked position, possessions and life itself in violating the decree.

    in the footnote to the first paragraph, Ray Franz states "I have a photo copy of the registration dated June 10, 1943 in which the Secretariat of Foreign Affairs authorizes the registration of La Torre del Vigia as a " Non -Profit Civil Association Founded for Scientific, Educational and Cultural Dissemination" This arrangement remained in effect over a period of some 46 years.

    my comments:

    so this wasnt some " Old history" this was going on in our lifetime i'm bad at math but add 46 yrs to 1943 and thats not too many years ago that this was changed. I find this to be a wrong stance by the WTBS and its inexcusable. It definitely and truly shows the greed of the Orginization. Its main goal is not the salvation of its members but to increase their monetary gain.

  • kwintestal
    kwintestal

    Talk about a transparent purpose. I think this arangement stopped in 1995, give me a couple of mins to find the announcement.

    Kwin

  • wizedup
    wizedup

    Jesus' told his disciples to be cautious as serpants yet innocent as doves!

    Can you just see Jesus teaching his disciples this kind of "Theocratic Warfare" (Lying) to spread the Good News?

    to them!

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    It shocked me, too. Outrageous, unthinkable, that such a deadly double-standard existed.

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    This is the thing that made me quit the JWs and never even consider going back. How dare they? And all these brothers and sisters in Mexico thinking they are faithful and trusting in Jehovah to straighten out the civil authorities in due time so they can worship their Grand Creator in Freedom? When really all along it was the WTBTS making sure they got to own their PROPERTIES. Makes me want to puke.

    O

  • kwintestal
    kwintestal

    *** g94 7/22 pp. 13-14 Mexico Changes Its Laws on Religion ***

    Mexico Changes Its Laws on Religion

    ON JULY 16, 1992, THE NEW LAW OF RELIGIOUS ASSOCIATIONS AND PUBLIC WORSHIP WAS PUT INTO EFFECT IN MEXICO. WHY WAS THIS NECESSARY, AND WHAT DOES THIS NEW LAW CONVEY? LET US TAKE A LOOK INTO THIS MATTER THAT HAS AROUSED MUCH ANTICIPATION.

    WITH Spain?s conquest of what is now Mexico, the Catholic religion was imposed by force on the people. When the time came to legislate religious matters, a law of Spain, the Constitución de Cádiz (1812), was applied in part; Article 12 stated: "The religion of the Spanish Nation is and will forever be Catholic, Apostolic, Roman, the one and only true religion." Later on, in 1824, a Constitution was established for Mexico, and it stated: "The religion of the Mexican Nation is and will forever be Catholic, Apostolic, Roman. The Nation protects it by wise and just laws, and prohibits the exercise of any other." Although there were several revisions of the law of the country, the same idea was expressed even until 1843, granting the Catholic religion priority and, in fact, excluding any other religion.

    It was in 1857 that Benito Juárez, a Mexican statesman, started a revision of the laws of the country introducing what was called Laws of the Reformation. This was to "nationalize the real estate of the church" and "to increase the political and economic power of the State and to decrease that of the [Catholic] Church." (Historia de México, Volume 10, page 2182) In this group of laws of 1859, the Law of Nationalization of Ecclesiastical Properties was promulgated, as well as a law requiring that marriages be performed by the State in order for them to be legal. In 1860 the Law for Religious Freedom was promulgated.

    The reformation laws granted a certain amount of religious freedom to the people, stipulating that the Catholic religion would no longer be the only one that could exist in the country. However, this new freedom was quite limited and conditional. The laws recognized that religions existed in Mexico but did not accord them any legal recognition or rights. Reformation laws were specially designed to limit the Catholic religion but incidentally also limited all religions in the country. Nevertheless, religions apart from Catholicism could then function more freely, and Protestant religions from the United States started an evangelization campaign in the country.

    The reformation laws were reinforced in 1917, with the same anticlerical spirit, which caused persecution of the priests and Catholic people. This gave way to the Cristeros war in 1926, a Catholic war against the government that was an attempt to cancel the restrictive laws governing religion. This war concluded in 1929 with some agreement of tolerance by the government, but the laws continued without modification.

    In a commentary about these laws, the book Una Ley Para la Libertad Religiosa (A Law for Religious Freedom) mentions: "We realize that originally our Constitutional Article 24 in its second paragraph, and the other reformed constitutional articles, were clearly an infringement of religious freedom, since they limited the external practice of every individual?s religion and subjected the practice thereof to regulation dictated by the authority.

    "Furthermore, these constitutional dispositions were clearly contradictory to what was established in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 19) and to the American Convention of Human Rights (Article 12), which international instruments the Mexican State has endorsed."

    In 1988, when the new president of Mexico started his six-year term, the Catholic hierarchy was invited to the presidential inauguration. In his message, President Carlos Salinas de Gortari announced the need to modernize the relations between Church and State. This new approach led to the conclusion that a revision of the laws relative to religion was mandatory. Besides that, the country was developing into a more democratic society, and negotiations were started for a free trade agreement with the United States and Canada. So it was essential to revise the law to make it consistent with freedom of religion.The New LawThe new law, as stated in its first article, is "founded on the historic principle of separation of Church and State, as well as on freedom of religious beliefs . . ." The second article guarantees freedom for the individual "to have or to adopt the religious beliefs that he prefers and practice, collectively or individually, the acts of worship or rites of his preference . . . , to profess no religious beliefs . . . , not to be an object of discrimination, coercion, or hostility because of one?s religious beliefs . . . , to associate and meet together peacefully for religious purposes." Through this law, "churches and religious groups will have legal status as religious institutions as soon as they obtain the corresponding required registry before the Ministry of Government." Also, "religious institutions formed according to the present law may have their own patrimony that allows them to fulfill their objective."

    Jehovah?s Witnesses Are Registered Legally

    In accord with this new law, Jehovah?s Witnesses in Mexico presented an application to the Office of Religious Affairs on April 13, 1993, to be registered as a religion. Before that time Jehovah?s Witnesses, as any other religion in the country, existed de facto but had no legal personality. Jehovah?s Witnesses had been present in the country since early in the 20th century. Although there was no legal recognition, on June 2, 1930, the government of Mexico authorized the International Association of Bible Students. On December 20, 1932, this name was changed to La Torre del Vigía (The Watchtower). But in 1943, because of laws that limited religious activities in the country, a new entity was registered as a civil association. In this way Jehovah blessed the work that Jehovah?s Witnesses had been carrying out throughout the years. At present, in accord with a document dated May 7, 1993, which was forwarded to them on May 31, 1993, Jehovah?s Witnesses are registered as La Torre del Vigía, A. R., and Los Testigos de Jehová en México, A. R., both of them religious associations.

    Under these new provisions, Jehovah?s Witnesses in Mexico, as in 230 other lands in the world, continue working hard in preaching the Kingdom of God. There is a big program of expansion in Mexico, which includes the construction of new Kingdom Halls and new Assembly Halls. With more than 380,000 publishers and some 30,000 new ones getting baptized each year, there is a lot of work to do, as manifested in the 530,000 home Bible studies that are being conducted at present.

    This does not mean that all the problems are solved for Jehovah?s Witnesses in Mexico. Their children still have to face pressures in school because of the neutrality issue. The authorities, however, seek to apply the new law in an equitable way in dealing with the different religions in the country. Mexico has indeed taken a big step in the defense of human rights and religious freedom with the new law concerning religion.

    They don't hide that they weren't considered a religious group, but they don't explain what the result of that was. Would that be a "half-truth"?

    Mrs. Kwin just started "Apocolypse Delayed" by Penton, another good book but is more about WTS history instead of being the account of an individual, like CoC.

    Kwin

  • confusedjw
    confusedjw

    Hey Emu Head,

    Your posts have gotten me reading CoC again. I just got thru Ch 4.

    (I never did read the bible thru twice)

  • formerout
    formerout

    It is shocking, to be sure. Are you aware of the other major hypocritical situation that happened in Mexico?

    While the "brothers" in Malawi were being beaten up, raped and even killed due to their stance against signing up for military duty, the "brothers" in Mexico were bribing corrupt Mexican Gov't officials by paying them $25.00 for an illegal card that stated that they had already done their (I believe) one year of service in the military.

    The greatest blame does not of course fall on the "brothers" in Mexico. The real guilty party was the WTBTS head honchos, since the brothers were just following their orders.

    Very sad that they could be so hypocritical, at the expense of the people in Malawi. I still remember when I was a little boy and I would ask my mom to pray for me and she would ask "Jehovah" to help the brothers in Malawi. It hit home even more when I found out the bigger story.

    Brad

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    yes i read that as well.. i had known about that situation before as it is spoken of quite a bit here but not about this.

    even in the scan kwin posted they dont say that the brothers in mexico didnt PRAY at meetings, so the rank and file dont know the whole truth, the rank and file dont know the hypocrisy and flagrant disregard for Jehovahs requirements.

    confused.. it aint gonna hurt you to get more of a bird brain like me..keep reading lmao

  • johnny cip
    johnny cip

    i was talking to some mexican jw's about this and they tell me the wt was banned there till 1993. duh!!!!!!!!!!! it had to do with land ownership. there was a thread a while back that broke this all down. and showed these articles in the wt are lying. lets hope someone can come up with the thread... blondie john

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