It is a part 2 to my "what makes a cult a 'cult'?" thread. So what would it take to trun the marines for example from a military cult to a mainstream religion. I hope vets chip in I would like to get the ball rolling before i chime in. People always say what the watchtower should do, but i think we have bigger fish to fry then a serial pulp publisher and real estate mogul.
What would it take to turn the military from a cult to a religion?
by XQsThaiPoes 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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czarofmischief
The marines?
A prophet?
CZAR
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czarofmischief
The original congreessional army (that fought the british) was nothing like this and if you got fed up you could just take your gun and go home as it was all volunteer (plus you had to bring your own gun and clothes anyway).
This is from your other thread. A) Maybe you should reread history. Washington hanged deserters; although the army was plagued with desertion, if you were caught, you were hanged. Volunteer was just for the initial entry. You couldn't sign up and then quit.
B) It was a revolutionary army - hence the need for weapons. But the Army got shoes from France, right? Cannons, too. I doubt that they brought THOSE from home, but they were instrumental at Yorktown.
C) All a kid has to do to get rid of a modern recruiter is give them a JW speech about how evil it is that war exists and that we should be supporting the modern Kingdom of God.
I would deny that the military is a cult. It has a dangerous job, but so do Alaskan fisheries and coal miners, and nobody says that THEY are cultish.
CZAR
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blondie
Steve Hassan has this to say about cults, mind control and the military
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/books/rtb4.htm
The Military
The military is an example of a highly structured, pyramid-shaped organization. There is a strict hierarchy. Soldiers are assigned numbers, given haircuts and uniforms, instructed in ways of talking, walking, marching and fighting. It is a career where personal choice is much more restricted than in society at large. In boot camp training, particularly in the Marines, the SEALs and other Special Forces, the use of mind control techniques is considered essential to create the identity of an elite soldier.But unlike a destructive cult, the military is accepted and valued by society . Military leaders answer to other branches of the government. The military is also governed by ethical codes and structural checks and balances. People join the military for a specified length of time, and receive pay and benefits. With a few unfortunate exceptions, the military does not use deception in recruitment. When people join the military, they know what will be expected of them. Soldiers are encouraged to maintain contact with their family and friends, and vacation time is given annually.
When people endure rigorous training such as medical school, law school, the military, or the priesthood, they are making a conscious choice to become a doctor, a lawyer, a soldier, a priest. This training enhances their sense of identity and offers knowledge, skills and affords a variety of benefits. When a person is deceptively recruited into a destructive cult, the leaders immediately begin a process of tearing down, rejecting, and reprogramming the person's authentic identity. The person loses his free will. He does not receive many personal benefits, and there is no institutional way to exit with honor.
Hassan has been at the forefront of cult awareness activism since 1976 and is the author of two critically acclaimed books ? Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults (1988) and Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves (2000).
Hassan has 27 years of frontline activism exposing destructive cults, providing counseling and training, and appearing in major media including 60 Minutes, Nightline, Dateline, Larry King Live, and The O?Reilly Factor.
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Axelspeed
Usually the military has no creativity on its own. It is simply used as an arm of support for an existing movement or one that is about to emerge. It is the charismatic, the fanatic and the man of action that is the creator of a cult, movement or what have you. The purpose of any military is basically mindless and unquestioning support of an existing or emerging movement. Hoffer's "True Believer" is an great book that outlines the process of the creation of a mass movement (which when carried so far becomes for all intensive purposes 'a religion' and what could be defined in some cases as a cult) and the roles of each that and played out within it, including the military.
Axelspeed
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Satanus
It is the charismatic, the fanatic and the man of action that is the creator of a cult
It isn't truly a cult, at this point. W bush doesn't fit totally fit the above description. He isn't charismatic. It would probably take a greater percieved threat and a more charismatic leader to change the military or parts of it into a cult. Think hitler and the gestapo.
S
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Axelspeed
I wasnt really speaking of W in particular, but more about the role of any military, which is unquestioning support. My point is that generally movements or cults are not born from the military as a whole. There are exceptions...like when there is an individual who charismatically steps out and ahead to create a new movement.
Axelspeed
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czarofmischief
but more about the role of any military, which is unquestioning support.
I have to disagree. You may be right about the historical purpose of the military; but in current times there have been notable exceptions to your "rule". The Red Army refused to support the hardline Communist coup that overthrew Gorbachev. The American military takes an oath to defend and uphold the Constitution, not any particular man. And more recently the Ukraine army made it very clear that whatever might be dividing the nation, they would not fire upon their own people.
The military can ideally provide a handy check on the power of any leader or congress - the threat of refusing to obey orders can be a powerful one; the whole system could fly apart if that happened!
CZAR
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Bryan
military cult
???? Sorry, don't agree... don't understand... unless you're trying to make some point.
The Marines are not a cult. They are full of brave young men and women.
Bryan
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bisous
Wow, I expected to open this thread and mock it in my head .... XQs me ....
but it is actually quite thought provoking after reading the posts with opposing definitions and examples. Is the military a cult (although not the exact topic) is a question to ponder. Many attributes are the same ... after thinking about it. At first I disagreed, thinking it takes longer for initial inculcation than a visit to a recruitment office, but sometimes ... if someone is really casting about, seeking something -- then a religious inculcation can move as quickly as a military indoctrination. Also, the initial *needs* are just as compelling for an individual. There are a couple of typical and driving reasons a person joins the military : Family heritage/pressure (parent was in the service); Dire socio-economic conditions which drive desperate moves or cloud potential real issues one will face such as actual war duty. The forces behind these 2 examples parallel reasons behind religious inculcation.
The more I consider it, the more cultlike it becomes.
Czar, I agree that on a rare occasion a group will splinter off or refuse orders ... but that happens in cults too. Look at all of us on this board and countless others actively refusing to accept the propaganda any longer. And as far as charismatic leaders, it would not have to be Shrub, the charismatic leader can be within a unit of the military.
Interesting thoughts to contemplate.