A cult tears down a person. Takes away personal will.
The military builds up a person. Impowers him/her. Helps the member build selfesteem.
Bryan
What would it take to turn the military from a cult to a religion?
by XQsThaiPoes 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Axelspeed
but in current times there have been notable exceptions to your "rule"
I agree and I tried to make room for this exception when I stated
There are exceptions...like when there is an individual who charismatically steps out and ahead to create a new movement.
In general, movements are not born from within the military. True, the American military takes the oath...but there is always the exceptional individual man/soldier that is lurking, who if charismatic enough could turn the tide (for good or bad depending on your perspective). In the case of the Communist coup, the days of that movement were numbered by that time and the handwriting was on the wall and the military saw/felt it in there hearts and minds as individuals and ultimately as a whole. This is the place in the military where the leader(s) (ie Gorbachev) of any movement have to strike if what they propose is going to have any success...they have to win over the military. At that point depending on the strength of the movement, this new movement (in some cases what could be labeled a glorified cult) have the unquestioning support of the military...until the next one comes along.
Axelspeed
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bisous
Bryan, JWs and other cult members would say the same thing of their organization.
You just made a blanket statement that doesn't apply in all cases. That's how cult members start out feeling, but over time many members have doubts .... I've heard that from military personnel.
The military tears all inductees down through the boot camp process ... only to "build them up" by incorporating a standardized, programmed life which is essential to the ongoing success of the unit. I've heard many military leaders describe this process in detail, it is well known as being a cornerstone of how military units are able to operate effectively. This initial process can be devastating to some inductees and has sometimes resulted in severe emotional breakdowns, even suicide.
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Bryan
This is true bisous, the witnesses would say this.
But I am not in the military lookin out, saying this. I am not in the military nor in the bOrg, therefore, I am comparing both from the outside.
Bryan
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bisous
Me too Bryan!
I hope you didn't think I was suggesting you were a witness. My point was that cult members would use your argument as rationale for their cause.
As far as the military building up and empowering, I think sometimes it does, sometimes it don't. Many of the attributes of the military which have been presented here mirror cult behaviors. I find the topic worth exploring further.
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Bryan
No problem bisous.
I just have difficulty with any type of comparison of Witnesses to people who give their lives for others.
Bryan
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MungoBaobab
The Witness Home Bible Study program serves as the boot camp "tearing down process." Ever notice that this is when things in the house become demonized? After a thorough search of the house, some non-JW approved object or another is discovered, destroyed, then the prospective Bible student becomes a faithful pre-Witness pending baptism. My theory is the guilt of a non-JW life overwhelms the Bible student to the point where they project their inner "demons" outward until they find a mascot in the form of an old cross, Smurf doll, whatever the case may be. Getting rid of the "demonized" object serves as a ritual casting off of the old personality (did that f'ing phrase just come out of my mouth?!). Of course, most JWs aren't that crazy. Most.
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XQsThaiPoes
Czar as for washington he was adimately oppossed to the loose revolutionary volunteer system. And in general "deserters" are always shot in war. But in the larger scope your "unit" or what ever the term was then was independantly funded and controlled (usually by whom ever the mogul of your town was). It was a big thing to even get some places just to reliquish thier troops to a larger battle. I assume like all things in life your freedom to "pack up and go home" was dependant on whom was in command and how much clout you had. Also as time went on the army became more concrete. I am sorry if i made it sound like it was 100% total anarchy
As for steve
But unlike a destructive cult, the military is accepted and valued by society.
Wrong the military is a destructive cult that is accepted and valued by society.
Military leaders answer to other branches of the government.
THe question was never about leaders it was about the military complexe. I stated in the other thread that a military can,t "awnser" or be "brought to justice" unless it is defeated. The individuals including leaders are expendable and can be chastized in any manner the military decides.
The military is also governed by ethical codes and structural checks and balances.
So are cults, and also many have checks, and balences. BTW many ethical codes are later decided to be unethical by other militaries or governments.
A modern example of an unethical thing done by the military in peace time will not in a state of war is the scorched earth practice spraying columbian farmers crops with weed killer (wtf are they going to eat) to kill the coca plants grown by other farmers. Now the cocaine is immune to weed killer btw and farmers now have no choice but to grow it so they can trade it for money to buy food.
People join the military for a specified length of time, and receive pay and benefits.
False. In many places you dont recive "pay", and the only benefit is food/shelter the same thing a cult offers, and many cults have monetary "pay" too. The concept that you join for a specified lenght of time is false even in the american military. At best this is a peace time aproxmation.
With a few unfortunate exceptions, the military does not use deception in recruitment.
This sentance is worthless special pleading. Example " With a few unfortunate exceptions, cults do not use deception in recruitment. "
When people join the military, they know what will be expected of them.
No they don't otherwise they would not need boot camp. They would just hand out ammo, supplies, weapons, designate a group leader, and go.
Soldiers are encouraged to maintain contact with their family and friends, and vacation time is given annually.
Cults do the same thing. Notice the soldier can't just go home to vistist when he wants to see his family and then go back to the military. He needs premission. All if not most of his mail is censored (ie read but the military). This is the same thing many cults do.
So steve hasan the cult expert is basically using speacial pleading or misinformation. Which means that the military is a destuctive cult, but it is socially acceptable. (no offense to this mans work or character he just is wrong)