WTS lied about Joseph Priestley and Blood (page 2)

hawkaw

WRT Dr. Sam Muramoto's response in the CMJ. ( http://www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-164/issue-7/0969b.asp

Back on June 19, 2001 I telephoned Dr. John Doyle. He works at Toronto Hospital as a top ranked Anesthesiologist. He told me he gets 2 to 3 JWs a year. He also confirmed what I already knew - Few in his profession have a clue what this doctrine is all about and a lot of doctors will not deal with JWs because of the blood issue.

John told me he took an interest in this religion because of its wild beliefs (I can't disagree there). I contacted him just to let him know that a live only 2 hours away, to thank him for his contribution to AJWRB (look in the doctors section) and if we could do something up at some point in the future with respect to getting the message out in Canada. He agreed to help and stay in contact with me - really nice guy.

I also personally told Dr. Doyle of my outrage at Zenon's (Director of the Canadian WTS HIS) response to his letter in CMJ on letting the Medical community know about the change in hemoglobin. I asked if he wanted me to do anything. John, as the professional he is, stated "no, I thought I would let what Zenon Bodnaruk say stand on it own for what it is".

I told John how much I appreciated the help of Toronto and Sick Kids Hospitals in Toronto. As a youth growing up in downtown Toronto I was in Sick Kids quite a few times so I have much respect for the Doctors at both hospitals - which are across the street (Gerrard Street) from one another and tied into the Unviersity of Toronto.

Well, I am glad Dr. Sam Muramoto responded to Zenon's insane letter in the CMJ (Canadian Medical Journal) in support of both Dr. Doyle and AJWRB. Thanks Sam.

Both Sam and John are class doctors who have one thing in mind - saving lives and treating people with respect.

hawk

p.s. - Zenon is the Director for the Hospital Information Service in Georgetown, Ontario, Canada for those interested.

hawkaw

Maximus asked :

And what I want to know is, Was Priestley one of those true Christians, or was he one of those Godless scientists the Society is always talking about.

For those interested, here is a little biography on J. Priestley.

( http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/chemistry/institutes/1992/Priestley.html

Note he was not only a scientest BUT ALSO A MINISTER!!!! - something the WTS fails to tell us in their section of "Blood and True Christians" in the blood booklet.

hawk

hawkaw

Max and Marvin.

You have brought up the hemoglobin issue very well.

I have found, that what throws the JWs is a calm conversation on the supposed ban on white blood cells.

As a test, I have now had two conversations with two different JWs (in a different city than where I live) on the subject of peripheral blood stem cell (PBSC) autografting done on a JW patient - ( http://www.ajwrb.org/physicians/muramoto-murky.html.

I explain that this is basically the same thing as a transfusion of white blood cells. The JWs just refuse to believe me. And then ....

I show them the Article Title: Clinical and ethical issues in the treatment of a Jehovah's Witness with acute myeloblastic leukemia. Source: Arch Intern Med 1997 Aug 11-25;157(15):1753-7 Author(s): Kerridge I; Lowe M; Seldon M; Enno A; Deveridge S

I take a copy of the article where ever I go now. After they read it, I again explain it is the same thing as a transfusion. Then, I ask the question - If the HIS and HLCs allows this banned blood product this way, why are they not allowing other types of white blood cell transfusions and the other banned products?

It jolts them, especially when I initally set them up with the thought that JWs will allow for the death of little children. (Thanks Dr. Sam Muramoto)

Oh, I think I may .... may have found another thingy that is similar to Joseph Priestley. But I think this is really going to take a lot of research. I will report on it when I am done.

I think the Priestly, Eusebius (Biblis), Tertullian, and especially the Gorman issues are excellent articles to show how the WTS decieves innocent parents who are willing to put their children to death. And I hope a lot of people are printing them off. I wonder if the WTS ever figured that Maximus and others would actually go looking for this stuff.

hawk

Maximus

Hawkaw, sorry I haven't answered your mail; time constraints have prevented the full attention you deserve. The 'no fraternizing' comments in the W article are simply dropped in at what seemed to be a good spot, in strained fashion. Forget context.

I'll send you a copy of that current Watchtower anyway, which also has a whole page devoted to the pregnant question, 'How long did Job suffer?' Not exactly one everyone has been holding his breath for. It is awful juvenile stuff. (As to the awkward NW construction "it came to be the day," Hebrew scholars would howl with laughter; akin to "once upon a time." (Compare "The Art of Biblical Narrative," Robert Alter, Basic Books. I've recently seen it in remainder stores for $4.)

I invite you to pay particular attention to the two "mainstreaming vs. reform" posts by metatron, which speak to the dumbing down of the Society's publications and the deaf responses to honest inquirers. That's the best insight you could have, expressed honestly and accurately to a devastating degree.

Yes, the white cell issue is another huge inconsistency. Reason has not prevailed in this area either. "Then again," as the late Karl Klein was fond of using in his Watchtower articles, "some" do not want this inconsistency to be too glaring to the hardliners, who would put this genie back into the bottle. For non-JWs like you and Sam Muramoto, this is especially incredible.

Maximus
Picturing the JW rabbis overseeing cow blood collection at BioPure, declaring it kosher and crossing their fingers ...

Eusebius Hieronymus

Up ...

Thirdson

Hawkaw,

Some very good work here! I have found this and your other posts very intEresting.

Note he was not only a scientest BUT ALSO A MINISTER!!!! - something the WTS fails to tell us in their section of "Blood and True Christians" in the blood booklet.

Just a little story and I think something lost on many of the JW's who attended there, I attended the Priestly Road, Kingdom Hall in Birmingham, England (when it was Highgate) for many years as a kid. Joseph Priesly served as a minister at a chapel in that city prior to moving to America. The road was named in his honor. It's a pity the hall was replaced with another a block away on a different street. But as I said, I doubt many knew the significance of the name or even knew who Joseph Priestly was.

Thirdson

'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

MacHislopp

Hello Hawkaw, Maximus and Marvin Shilmer,

Many thanks for the excellent topic, the quotes
and the added informations, which I do think show
your keen altruistic interest , in all who come to read at this site.

The research also show a desire to be clear, precise
and not like some…who frequently misquote from other people's work.

I'm sure that many will appreciate your work,
and this will help some to "see better" in these
important aspect of our life.

I'm personally pleased to see that "understanding"
doctors like Sam Muramoto and Dr. Doyle are
supporting AJWRB and as Hawkaw stated :
" …are class doctors who have one thing in mind -
saving lives and treating people with respect".

I have to add that, it has been a great pleasure
to get such informations in this post.

Thanks again, and greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

hawkaw

Hi Max,

No problem on the Email. I look forward to the WT rag and thanks in advance for sending it.

I love metatron's posts so I will look for them. I thought I might have read them but I am not sure. I will go back and look.

Take care and thanks to all of the others who have commented on this thread.

hawk

waiting

Howdy all,

Being nothing but an average jw, I can barely make heads or tails out of this medical conversation.

And I seriously believe that's what the WTBTS is betting on - the average jw just won't understand the implications and will do the Biblical Safe thing - abstain from blood. Period.

I know, from speaking with my mother-in-law (80) and my co-worker, (20) - that's their stance, with no deviation nor any wish to learn more. Once in an emergency situation - it's too late, thus the words "No Blood".

So.....Priestly was the founder of the Unitarian Church, eh? The joke down South is: "What do Unitarians believe in? Anything they want."

And that's the WTBTS scientific quote source - a Unitarian Minister, who is also a scientist - who never said quite what they said he said.

I like Max's comment - just lop off their feet to fit the bed. Too bad the person (quote) is killed in the effort.

Thanks to all for the fine discussion. It is appreciated.

waiting

ps - I have a joke on the Unitarian beliefs. If I can find it - I'll post it in the Joke Section. Wouldn't be appropriate to post it here, now would it.

hawkaw

Linkages

For those who "stumble" onto this thread, I have decided to link this thread with three other threads, which I think are important when it comes to the leadership misleading JWs and their little children on the life and death issue of blood.

Please note the following after you have read this thread:

Lee Elder's "Blood Update" Thread - Containing a link to Dr. Sam Muramoto's letter to CMAJ ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7831&site=3#96509

Maximus' - "Blood, The Watchtower and Deceit" Thread - Regarding Dr. Gorman and the Oct 15/00 WT QFR & Marvin Shilmer's Tertullian comments
( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6288&site=3#91041

hawk's - "Tertullian & June 15/00 WT on Blood" Thread - dealing with Tertullian and the writings of Eusebius on Biblis
( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7271&site=3#89926

Just click and go. These sites provide the actual WT quotes and then the actual quotes of the authors for you to compare.

hawk

p.s. - waiting - hope it was worth the wait

WTS lied about Joseph Priestley and Blood

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