[ Last Xmas, a film "Love Actually" (sentimental tat really but who says we don't need sentimentality occasionally) was based on the idea that everywhere people are in love and being loved. ] omg, i LOVE that movie! [ So, what's the verdict? Are people intrinsically good or bad? ] good. definitely.
Are people intrinsically good or bad?
by eyeslice 38 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Carmel
22. O SON OF SPIRIT!
Noble have I created thee, yet thou hast abased thyself. Rise then unto that for which thou wast created.(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)
Me thinks the misunderstanding that gave rise to the "original sin" idea has caused more harm to the human psyche than any other xtian idea.
Carmel
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Deputy Dog
eyeslice
I'm not, nor have I ever been a JW, but, If men are intrinsically good, why do we need laws to keep order?
D Dog
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one
Non domestic animals, natural destructive powers, corrossion, weed and bacteria rules and determine the "living" condition for species and molecules,
It is hell and jungle out there you know.
Of course WT says satan is responsible.
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Satanus
Intrinsic would exclude social conditioning. At our core, i think that we are both animal and spirit. The animal wants, competes, dominates, manipulates, but it also has a group instinct, since we are a gregarious animal. The spirit does not fear, does not want. It also enjoys the game. I think that most of us, if conditions were right, could kill. Most of us, if conditions were right, would give our lives to save someone else. You can label things good or bad as you wish.
S
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one
Satanus,
who created the "conditions" which exist today?
And how such such "conditions" are influencing humans TODAY.
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Satanus
who created the "conditions" which exist today?
People: groups of people in the form of govts, groups of people who make up corporations, individual people such as nikola tesla, einstein, darwin, people in civil rights groups, etc, etc. The weather also had an influence, as it affects crops. The preexisting condition and growth on the land also has a big influence. Why do you ask?
S
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one
Satanus,
Your asked: "Why do you ask?"
Just shooting from the hip but since you say that
"You can label things good or bad as you wish."
How do you label thing today?,
from perspective of global population and in regard to human wellbeing, physical and mental health and attitute toward fellow humans.
Not looking for a debate, just want to listen to different opinions.
Something is producing a lot of distrust among humans, requiring laws and contracts for the most simple things, it is sick..
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onacruse
Very interesting thread, and posts.
I suggest that no person is intrinsically good or bad...just and simply instrinsic.
Along the lines of what others have already said: how do you separate the social conditioning from the equilibrium of co-existence? You can't. Politics, religion, economics, etc., are all manifestations of more than one person existing in this universe. Adam was just fine (intrinsically) until he saw the first plant, interacted with the first animal, and met his female counterpart. Then the fun began.
"Good" and "bad" suddenly became a matter of "me better than that":
1) "I can move, and plants can't, so I'm better";
2) "I can talk, and animals can't, so I'm better";
3) "I'm stronger than her, and make more money, so I'm better."
The whole scene rapidly became a matter of functionality, which (once Eve appeared) transformed into ethical determinations of "better or worse," and thence to moral systems that attempted to evaluate such behaviors as "good or bad." And then it becomes a feedback cycle; quite interesting, in a perverse sort of way.
In this respect, social evolution may well be more the issue than genetic evolution.
Craig
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Satanus
I see. I just meant that there are many dissagreements on what is good and what is bad. Well, i don't want to get into listmaking of what i think is good or bad, except that chocolate cheescake and wine are good.
The distrust between humans can have a few sources, for instance: historical bad experiences w certain other groups, or a natural distrust remaining from childhood or adolescence. Kids can be quite animalistic to other kids. There are lots of competitions among them. They are building egos. This carries on, to a large extent into adulthood.
In countries where there is rule of law, laws enable order to be maintained amidst all these competing egos. It is a system where, instead of a law of the jungle of the most powerful getting all the power, the group gives it's power/support to certain laws. Generally, even the most powerful are held to those laws.
S