I would think, hey this Jesus was a pretty nice guy...he sure is different than his dad in the OT though!
A "first-timers" ponderings...
by upside/down 31 Replies latest jw experiences
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Unclepenn1
Logansrun, I think you need to re-read my post. I am aware of when they were written, but my point was for that time period, that was very recent. (I even used Mohammed as an example). What ad hominem?
Penn -
shotgun
upside/down
If that is the case, to me it would be very "biased" for you to even voice an opinion on a book you see as having no value- but I could be wrong. Anyone can be a critic- it takes little effort and even less brains, just the ability to complain or say you don't agree.
I don't think Bradley means the bible has no value or does not contain valuable lessons and information...but is it the word of God and does it contain more than just human reasoning and thoughts?
You must have critically examined the JW religion, do you critically examine a major investment before you get involved...if so why would it be wrong to critically examine the bible.
If it is Gods word and conveyed by him it should stand up to critical examination with minor mistakes being accepted as being the responsibility of the imperfect writers. What if on critical examination it falls apart to it"s very core?
It takes alot more brainpower and much more painful to carefully examine something you hold in high regard than it does to merely accept it at face value.
Sorry I used all my lube on gumby.
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AK - Jeff
Upsidedown & Unclepenn
I agree with your opinion about the value of the Bible - all the rest that attack - why?
IMHO - live and let live. Even more, encourage those who have broken free - some may adopt your opinions and reject the Bible later - some may not. We can all agree that the WT organization has messed with all our heads for a long time.
JMO
Jeff
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lv4fer
Welcome to the Forum. I agree with you. I think that we tend to get too caught up in various doctrines and forget what his message was really about. 1. Love your neighbor as yourself. 2. Love God with your whole heart, mind, and soul. All the rest is well...speculation. In Romans 14 he said not to judge your brother regarding what he eats or drinks or regarding a day. IF you think a day is special and are convinced you want to worship God on that day, do it. But don't force it on your brother/sister. If you think pork is wrong, then don't eat it. If it bothers your brother that you are eating pork, be loving and don't eat it in front of him. I go to Non-denominational church. It suits me. I go when I feel like it. Not every Sunday. I do read the bible and when I left I spent quite sometime just reading it without pre-conceived notions. That is what helped me to know the the JW's were OH SO WRONG.
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upside/down
OK point taken,
But I stand by my original thought, the Bible message is s i m p l e. What kind of rotten core do you find with Bible teaching? OK maybe you can find some names and dates that don't appear to match up or what appear to be conflicting chronologies- that's not what I'm talking about. I mean the "kindergarten" stuff like, "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" or "judge not lest ye be judged" or "love your neighbor as yourself" THAT kind of stuff.
If the Bible as you insinuate can be found to be so flawed and full of error that it's core teachings become irrelevant, than that begs the question can ANY source of so-called spiritual knowledge stand up under that scrutiny. Hell the US Constitution will cease to exist as an "original" document soon due to inevitable decay! Does that mean what's contained in it will no longer be relevant to Americans? Hell let's attack the guys who wrote it while we're at it.
I'll make it simple (not dogmatic) all I ask is- Can you (or anyone) find fault with any one of the 10 Commandments or with one of Jesus illustrations? There isn't a culture or "religion" on the planet that condones stealing, adultery, murder, rape maltreatment of children or maltreatment of parents (or older ones). Even a criminal hates to be a victim of crime.
I think (or feel) maybe you have feelings like I mentioned earlier- were you a "victim" of some really bad treatment or did you witness someone else go through it. Sorry, just me paying "shrink" lol.
touche
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candidlynuts
upside/down.welcom!. i've come to similar conclusions as you have.. i've gone thru my anger and most of my bitterness and i'm left with my belief in God. i believe you make a good point in Jesus sending people back to apply what they'd learn and love is imperitive to serving God.
i know a lot of people in my personal life and on this board that dont believe in God. and thats ok , i dont feel the need to convince anyone anymore like i did as a jw. i live my life and i enjoy a variety of people in my life. i've seperated what religion expects out of me and what Jesus said he expected of his followers. and i am much happier now. i try to love my neighbor regardless of any belief differences.
dont be discouraged by the variety of posts you get. this board has a diverse bunch of people and most mean well and we all feel free to have discussions about our beliefs. isnt it great to find out that those who dont believe in God arent evil axe murderers? they're just our neighbors!
love , lube and hugs
candy
4th generation jw... erm.. fading ex jw..
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shotgun
Upside/down
touche...I didn't mean to imply that it was rotten to the core, I did state that it does contain many valuable lessons and teachings. I enjoy reading the new testament and in fact it was liberating to read it's messeage without the JW twist on it.
What bothers me is that many people take it to be the word of God and thus use it with god like authority, when you critically examine it that is the core belief which crumbles..at least it did for me.
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upside/down
That's a great comment and I really appreciate it-
All I can say is that what ever the eventuality of all intelligent creation is going to be (and I do have my own thought on this)- it's what it's going to be. Whether we discuss it till we're blue in the face or not won't change that. If I die and wake up in Nirvana, a paradise earth, have 30 wives, or I'm a bug- whatever, I'll live with it and if I'm able I'll buy everyone a beer and toast the fact we're all there and what's next...
Eternity should be a bitchin place. And we're all on a journey to get there whether we like it or not. But like you mentioned I'm not gonna use my old Dub ways to try and force anyone to believe anything- does it ultimately matter, won't God set it all straight eventually- Hell we might be very surprised at the outcome.
An interesting side note: If Jesus was the greatest man who ever lived as many feel, isn't it interesting that in all of his teachings and dealings with mankind he chose only 1 group of people to condemn- THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS of his day, and that he made clear it was due to hypocrisy. It's not what enters a man that makes him unclean but what proceeds out of him. Let's face it we're all born with the deck stacked against us, we can't be perfectly good no matter how hard we try or pretend to be- period(and we had no choice in the matter). A loving creator knows this and will eventually make it right (love would seem to dictate that) and since Jesus many times asked us to look at ourselves as examples of how God is toward us (ie. who of you although being wicked knows how to give good things to his children when asked) I have to believe that. God gave me the intellect to ask questions, if that's a sin than who's to blame- me? I doubt it. I don't ask questions because I'm a rebel and want no authority. I ask merely to satisfy my inborn intellect and sense of justice and for peace of mind.I'm sure if God can forgive Mannasah, he surely can forgive me if need be.
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shotgun
Now were both using lube...must because were almost the same age.
I agree with your last post and hope that if I come back as a bug I don't end up eaten on fear factor...is there truly something to look forward to after we die...I guess we all hope so.