The first "notion that we have been fed" is that God is a man-like-thing or object within the universe. The second is that the Bible is the word of this limited anthropomorphic deity. If we unquestionably embrace these notions as truth, than our minds will not allow us to perceive anything other than what reinforces these foundational beliefs. It will not enter our minds that our precious beliefs are bogus, and the house we labor to build upon it is a joke and a sham.
As far as "the good news of God's kingdom", the message of Jesus was the same as every other true mystic that game before him or arrived after: the Kingdom/Truth is not lo here, or lo there, in space and time; but rather present within you now. Couldn't be any clearer.
But who has time to listen or hear when we are busy worshipping the messenger, filling ourselves with scriptures and earning some hoped for rewards from a make-believe god out there?
Welcome, u/d.
j
A "first-timers" ponderings...
by upside/down 31 Replies latest jw experiences
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JamesThomas
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AK - Jeff
I agree with your last post and hope that if I come back as a bug I don't end up eaten on fear factor...is there truly something to look forward to after we die...I guess we all hope so.
Shotgun - if u do get eaten as a bug on Fear Factor - what do you come back as next? sh-t? Just wondering?
Jeff
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JamesThomas
U/D,
Because of the browser I use, I am able to receive private messages, but unable to send them; so, if you don't mind I will respond here.
You ask if I was saying there is no god? No. Rather that the Source and Sustenance of all things, is not reducible to an object within the universe as is the common interpretation of a god. More like the universe is in God (of which there is no beginning or end). That, which has no beginning or end, has no form. No shape to give it presence in one specific location and thus absence in all other locations. It is present every-where and every-when; not subject to space and time; It is Infinity.
It is easy to become confused when someone uses the word "mystic"; and perhaps I should not have used it. However, if you study mysticism, it's purest understanding is simply that what the word "God" points to, is present within our deepest sense of Being and Conscious existence; not as some "thing" separate and apart, but rather intimately as our true and real Identity/Consciousness. In other words, the only limits or boundaries or absence of God, are non-realities created within the conceptual mind and it's beliefs. Thus, Jesus could honestly say "I and the Father are one". Meaning this not in a relative sense, but rather in a universal sense.
I would agree that anyone one who follows Jesus' philosophy would probably be a "very tolerant and loving person" as you said. However, traditionally one is a Christian because they have chosen and accepted Jesus as their Saviour, and upon doing so some special grace or rewards comes into play (or why be a Christian)? Now, if a Christian bears forth unconditional love, showing love equally towards all weather or not they are acknowledged or accepted, would this not be a greater show of love than that of their own Saviour, who requires acceptance? Loving too much becomes sacrilegious if your a Christian. Not because the Divine is limited, but rather it is the fundamental Christian interpretation of the Divine which is limited.
You ask, "so why be good?" When we live as if our minds commentary and judgments are the truth, then we come to expect some conceptual reasoning to be the motivating factor for being "good". Good luck. Conceptual understandings change with the tides and what motivates us one day to love and be good, may tomorrow cause us to kill. Take religion for example.
If you want goodness then remember that the purity of the Divine is not far away. It is right here; but hidden behind the beliefs and concepts of the mind. There need be no reason to be good, when it is clearly seen you are Oneness and Love Itself.
Be still, and know...
j -
upside/down
I'm just curious,
Why is it that "the creator" whatever and whoever and however IT is... has created or allowed to come into existence a physical reality that is so real and tangible, measureable and full of laws (physics). And we humans seem made to take advantage of all of this arranging of matter in such a way as to get great pleasure from this. Yet "the almighty" seems to be hidden so far from what we can know or are even capable of comprehending? Why is "He" such a mystery, what purpose does that fullfill? I have kids and I couldn't imagine removing myself from their lives but without their knowledge and unseen to them be involved with their lives like some ghost. Talk about unfulfilling! Where do you get your "knowledge", this seeming "inside scoop"? It certainly tickles my brain to "think outside the box", but again why would a loving entity be so anonymous and hidden. I would think he would like to at least be acknowledged or at the minimum thanked.I'm curious, do you think that a sunset is thermonuclear energy being bent fy the foreces of space and atmosphere with ionic release that reaction that imparts radiation to the third rock from the Sun in order to sustain organic based life as we know it - or is it just a beautiful SUNSET! I guess I'm a romantic at heart. How does romance fit into the "cosmic"reality. It serves no purpose. I also think that some things are exactly as they appear: happy babies, flowers, puppies, music, art, the mountains,the ocean etc. There is all kinds of physics, chemistry, biology, plate tectonics etc at work, but all I see is an abundance of beauty marred only by the occasional BAD person. Higher planes of existence and different dimensions of existence are all intriguing and no doubt real. But man hasn't yet attained to this. And God would not give us the intellect to dream and the imagination to imagine and not give us the ability to someday put that to use, it's illogical and unloving to think otherwise (perhaps ignorant)! But we never got that far.. a little debacle back in a place called Eden put it all on hold for a while. Is it so wrong for mere sentient human beings with all of our limitations to try and understand the almost incomprehensible (God) in ways that satisfy our meger intellect without hurting others- is that too much to ask for? "Organized religion" capitalizes in one way or another on our natural desires (things we should want) like spirituality. Just the way we humans use our knowledge to catch fish or trap animals. The problem only arises when man tries to dominate man- it was never meant to be, and that's why it NEVER works. Oh wait isn't THAT inthe Bible...
I love this... keep it coming!
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JamesThomas
U/P,
Look close and you will see that your questions only seem valid when viewed from within an arena where God is some thing separate from you. From there you will never discover the truly satisfying answers you seek, because your living in a matrix outside Reality.
Only when you find what is Real, what is your true Identity, will there be true peace and questions of how, when, and why, cease.
Originally you pondered on the possibility of "looking without preconceived notions that we have been fed". Well, this is exactly what is required to view Truth. All beliefs and all mental images about who you are that have been programmed in (which is all of them) must be let go of and seen through.
Find out what you really are, before you ask questions about what everything else is.
Take attention off the mind and all it's intellectual story telling, and look deep into the pool of the only living truth you have: conscious-awareness (everything else could be a dream).
j -
upside/down
Hey look,
I (believe it or not) understand where you're coming from,my best friend is in the same place as you literally word for word.
But it doesn't work for me, it's like I said in my earlier thread- maybe your into "higher math" but dude I struggle with addition and subtraction. Is it OK to hang onto, if-you-will a somewhat (pre-digested) concept of God? Is the whole planet wrong? Again if you are right- GREAT, I will still buy you a beer at the end of it all- so to speak. And I'll congradulate you! I just want to be there that's all- as I'm sure most people do. As far as me being part of "god" or in him or him in me or whatever! Again it's all semantics(sp?) if it's really that important than the oness is on God to clue me in the the intellectual level I'm at, not the other way around. He's the one that is almighty, not me!
Just another peon trying to cope
Thanks!
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JamesThomas
No problem.
I was just pointing. You don't have to look.
Welcome again. Glad you are here u/d.
j -
shotgun
Jeff
Shotgun - if u do get eaten as a bug on Fear Factor - what do you come back as next? sh-t? Just wondering?
everyone ends up in the recycle bin sooner or later...we just hope it's later....much later.
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Carmel
Can the bible be set along side the other holy texts and all of them be weighed by the same criteria? if you can do that, I guarantee you will abandon your exclusivist world view.
carmel
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upside/down
What is my "exclusivist world view"?
What are these other holy texts (specifically). What constitutes something as a holy text? Because as far as I know most holy texts were written by men, the same imperfect sons of Adam as me. Do my "writings" count as holy if I "feel" they are- just wondering? Because I think it is safe and reasonable to assume that if you would ask this of me then you have already done this. What a monumental work you must have accomplished and I would be most interested in reviewing your research as I do not have the time or the intellect (education?) to endeavor such a journey now. Who was it who said, word to the effect of, I merely stand on the shoulders of those who've gone before me? The thought being that if "truth" or at least enough of it to make good little humans comes only from this "deep" level of research and time devoted to studying every holy book (there isn't enough time in 10 lifetimes) than that means that once again just like the Dub's "salvation" or whatever you want to call it is available to only a privelged , gifted few! When Paul said that the "matter of the law (the ability to know what's right and wrong, moral and immoral) was written on their hearts" speaking of people who knew NOTHING of any holy writings, Bible included. You know it's funny, but true- Wars have been fought over less trivial matters! Isolated people have been discovered and studied and no matter how remote and removed from the rest of mankind one constant remains- the ability to distinguish right from wrong. It's hard wired into us to some degree. You know there is a point where someone is so "open minded" that their brain falls out. That's where people become enamored by their own ability to "reason" on matters becomes an ego boost in itself. For example we've all heard, How many angels can dance on the head of a pin or If God can do anything could he make a rock so big even He couldn't lift it? Rediculous logic puzzles that actually made people think they were "smart" or "intellectual", but it serves no purpose other than show yu're clever with words. You know even Ghandi agreed that if everyone followed the teaching of Jesus (notWTS) the world would be a much better place and it's problems would be solved. I say this not to "down" any holy writings (although some are spurious as hell and contain dangerous counsel, jsut ask Osama) just that there is enough teaching in the Bible that if that's all you had (and I'm not even saying you need it- Paul alluded to that by what I previously mentioned) it would be more than enough, especially WITHOUT some entrepeneurial religion coming between you and the counsel it contains.
Just a thought...(and I acknowldege this is all JUST my opinion- which has been changed many times!)
U/D