by Perry 108 Replies latest social current
the overwhelming success of Christianity on Western Civilization concerning ideas on freedom, liberty and tolerance
IMO the Western civilisation would not have reached its conclusions on "freedom, liberty and tolerance" were it not for the decisive stage of Enlightenment, which was more the result of a struggle against Christianity than a mere consequence of it. The Founding Fathers of the U.S.A. knew that.
Realist,
Give it a rest will ya? Please peddle your guilt on another thread and I will promise to respond there. This is about Islam.... get it?
One Islamic country that comes to mind is Malaysia. In that nation the Islamic monarchy has used the wealth generated from oil profits to enrich not just the people in power but commoners as well.Malaysia is interesting. I know they make tons of products there. Do you know what percentage is Moslim and what brand?
However, it's basis was the New Testament and how the current establishment wasn't living up to it.
Perhaps you are thinking of the reformation. The enlightenment was secular and fought against be the religious.
S
Right Satanus....I booo booed. I took it off.
Well I enjoyed the discussion folks. Have a great night and Merry Christmas to all if I'm not on again before then.
Bye
The age of enlightenment came a VERY long time after the cross.
That the NT is a less violent (take out the Revelation and call it non-violent, for all I care) document than the Koran is of very little importance to anyone sincerely looking for solutions. Muslim's demonstrate an ability to be peaceful, and Christians manifest an ability to be savage.
The west (and especially America) must convince Arab communities that it is dealing with them in good faith, for the reasons Narkissos pointed out above. Our pride seems to be as much an obstacle to that as much as our politics.
Ok still here. Well Six, Why do you think that nations where Christianity took root prospered materially and nations where Islam took root seemed to not progress commercially?
All posters here from many different perspectives seem to be in agreement that economic prosperity is one of the keys to containing Islam from killing its neighbors.
Perry
The islamic nations did prosper economically, medically, philosophically and scientifically during a time when christian earope plunged into the dark ages. I don't know enough about that period to list all the reasons, but two possibilities come to mind. One, islam was new and not yet w a solidified theology and hierarchy. Two, islam had the greek classics to influence its thinkers, which christendom did not.
As to explaining the present situation, i will leave it to six. Although, i wonder if perhaps we westerners haven't become shallow because of commercialism, not necesarily materialism.
S
Satanus,
I disagree. Today we think of science as a pursuit of knowledge empirically testable, proposing and testing hypotheses etc. When historians talk about science before the 13th century they are not talking about this definition.
Alfred Whitehead, the renouned philosopher of science and a non-christian said, "faith in the posibility of science generated antecedently to the development of modern scientific theory and is an unconscious deritive from Medival [Christian] theology. Rodney Stark (sociologist) noted that he had "grasped that Christian theology was essential for the rise of science in the west, just as surely as non-christian theologies had stifled the scientific quest elsewhere.
Lynn White - medevial science historian - " the medival monk was the intellectual ancestor to the scientist"
German Physicist Ernst Mach - "Every unbiased mind must admit that the age in which the chief development of the science of mechanics took place was an age of predominently [Christian] theological cast.
Professor Alvin J. Schmidt writes:
"Crediting Christianity with facilitating the rise of modern science may seem incredible to some, including scientists. The reason for this, in part seems to go back to Andrew Dickson White who in 1896 published A history of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom. Christianity and science as the title indicates were portrayed as incompatible. But even before White's negative portrayal of some Christians and their view of science appeared, "methodological atheism " had become the accepted epistomology of countless scientists and professors in colleges and universities. Thus, when biographies of past noteworthy scientists appear in books or journals, their Christian background and its influence on their scientific work, which was true of virtually every scientist from the 13th to the 19 th centuries is never mentioned".
The monastic tradition of Christianity were early labortories in my personal opinion. Genetics studies started there. The Christian concept of one God as a rational being gave impetus to the notion that if we are made in his image then why shouldn't we employ rational processes to investigate the world in which we live. The introduction of the inductive empirical method of study which deviated from the 1500 year old Greek deductive model was Chistrian hatched as were countles other post 1300 advancements.
Whatever Islam did do prior to 1300 in the area of "science" cannot be linked to knowledge derived from the empirical -experimental method, and hence be considered science in the modern sense of the word.
