The Global Flood (page 29)

Abaddon

Well, all things considered, I think I'd rather ingratite someone with eight limbs, a 25,000 year-old culture, and an IQ of 345, than stand on the bridge of the UFPSS Utterly Doomed and see that Independence Day was silly, and that no amount of pluck and determination, not even with Bruce Willis and Will Smith, would we stand a chance in hell against a civilisation that made us look like we were taking Trebuchets against F-117's.

To boldly die in ways no human has died before... or "Another Martini? Certainly Sir."

Hmmmm...

one

One,

That's not too tough. God anticipated a problem and provided help for it in advance, help that would be understood at the appropriate time.

Ok the "help", to resolve a problem, was the "sign".

When did God "anticipated a problem"?

a Christian

Derek,

I hope you didn't go to all that trouble for me, or for anyone else here for that matter.

For when I have said that "the numbers 4, 40 and 400 are used prominently in the Bible," I didn't mean they were used more than any other numbers. I don't think anyone understood me to say that. By "prominently" I meant these numbers are used in connection to many "high profile" people and events, people and events which the Bible itself connects with Christ, as shown in parts 2 and 3 of my first post on page 8 of this thread.

The numbers "7" and "12" are similar numbers. Though they may not occur too many more times in the Bible than other numbers, anyone who has read the Bible certainly knows that it uses these numbers in a prominent way.

One,

You asked: When did God "anticipate a problem"?

I think you know as well as I do what my answer to that question will be. For the Bible tells us that God knows, "the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done." (Isaiah 46:10)

one

A Cristian,

I think you know as well as I do what my answer to that question will be.

Not really, sincerely, that's why i did not ask a "gravity" dropped question that will follow..

For the Bible tells us that God knows, "the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done." (Isaiah 46:10)

So he knew about satan and company before she/he became satan...

AND God knew about the failing of his human creation before he cretated them.

I have been asking the following (modified) questions since i have heard about the matter for the fist time.

Would you build a condo building if you knew it was going to fall and kill most residents?

would you review the design?

or would you design "help" for a very minority group, and another kind of help for another larger group? (potential surivors) knowin full well that the great majority of residents will not survive.

know the jw answer... my question is still up in the air as the jw answer, as i understand, is lacking convincing arguments. The bible which i am willing to beleive to a greater extent has to make sense. "Science", cause and effect tell me the condo building was not designed properly, in fact it was brand new when it falled.

I am not kidding nor trying to waste my time nor your time..

a Christian

One, You asked: So he [God] knew about satan and company before she/he became satan... You also asked: [So] God knew about the failing of his human creation before he created them? You ask questions which the finite mind of man is probably unable understand the answers to, even if we are given their answers. For the questions you ask are both related to our dimension of time. Did God know about this before He did that? Did God do this before He knew about that? Such questions confine all of God's thoughts and actions to our dimension of time. Doing or knowing this before that is a sequence of events in the stream of time. And time is almost certainly not a dimension which God is confined to. Why do I say this? Because Einstein proved that time is only a dimension of our physical universe. And that time began when our physical universe began. Thus, since God created our physical universe, He existed before our physical universe began, and before time began. And since God created our physical universe, it is highly unlikely that He is now or ever has been subject to any of the constraints of the physical universe which He created, including time. Any more than I would be bound by the physical constraints of a cage I might make to keep my parakeets in. While my birds would be locked inside the limited dimensions of the cage I made, I would not be so constrained. And I do not believe God is now or ever has been constrained by time. So, it is quite possible that questions of the kind you are asking simply cannot be answered. Others certainly attempt to give what they believe are reasonable, understandable answers. I've heard these: God intentionally designed things in exactly the way He did for a purpose which we simply do not now fully understand. Perhaps God felt we needed to get to know the ways of someone who is opposed to Him, in order to fully appreciate for ourselves that God's ways are the best ways. Perhaps God allowed humans to "fail" ( sin ) in order to give us all free will. If we were not able to disobey God we would all be robots. So, God designed us with the freedom and the ability to choose to love Him or choose to oppose Him. Why? Because God wanted to have a loving relationship with us. And real love cannot be forced or programmed into someone. It must be given by one's own free will. You ask tough questions. I'm not a Guru on a mountain top. I don't have all the answers. I wish I did.

one

A cristian,

You ask questions which the finite mind of man is probably unable understand the answers to, even if we are given their answers.

For the questions you ask are both related to our dimension of time.

Since the "sign" is "related to our dimension of time", such as 4000 years "before jesus etc, i thought my question was appropriate.

And since you have been able to see the "sign". I sincerely decided to ask you some more question. I appreciate your answers, which included:

I don't have all the answers. I wish I did.

That's much better than wt answer.Then i will be back on stand by, save unanswered "tough" questions, try to do my best within humans limitations, and wait for new light.

upside/down

Your discussion of "time" and it's relation to our physical universe made me think of something that is as well unanswerable but thought provoking...

If "God" has been, and always will be... When was the universe created (or us)? Did "God" wait forever to create us?

My point being I think you're right when you point out that "God" is not bound by the space/time continuum(sp) that we in the physical realm live in. Either that or He never meant for us in our present form to have to comprehend such things, which certainly aren't necessary for our existence or to enjoy life just the way He's made it for us.

It's obvious from the creation and even the Bible tells us that God is WAY different than us,especially in magnitude and yet we still share His "cardinal" attributes. That is why there are so many literary tools and analogies for us to sort of visualize Him. The fact that He is talked of as being a "man" with arms, feet and a mouth- all unnecessary in the spirit realm, but things we can relate to. Not to far fetched really. How would you describe "color" to a blind person? Get the idea?

Anyway, great reasoning, very stimulating- Thank you

u/d

a Christian

UD, You asked: When was the universe created (or us)? Though God is not bound by the physical dimension of time, our universe is and the human race is. So both had a beginning in time. When were they created? "The age of our universe, with a margin of error of close to 1%, is 13.7 Billion years." http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_mm/mr_age.html "Homo sapiens appeared sometime between 100,000 and 300,000 years ago." http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3814

one

opinions about timing and purpose

This may be a repetition, but not to specifically refute any particular opinion. The tangent now in this thread is the "timing" concept, which is related to my opinion that a good superior being (God) has to have a good purpose for anything he/she plan and implement..

A well meaning superior being should relate to his low form creation, about the build-in timing concept and any other natural environment.

to allow "low" creatures to understand basic "doctrines" which are affecting their retrospective vision and perspective as presented. The bible does present timing concepts that can not be separeted from God (doctrines), the creator, the mentioned "sign" is one of them. It seem bible does try to relate low and superior "timing" (or whatever they call it upthere) concepts, as an example 1000 years = 1 day

Our concept of time is ruled by earth rotation etc, but god does not live on earth. Therefor our concept of time is irrevelant to him. .

It was said that it is not possible to know when (in god's "timing") God had a vision or preview of his creations. Following such line, it can be said that we dont know "when", in God's "timing" Adam failed.

BUT, for our purposes and dimensions it was 4000 years prior to jesus birth. It is obvious that for god to see the "future, "the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done", such "vision" has to be before it happens, even if we can not mesure it..

BTW

Most likely God does have a timing concept of his own. Physical creation does not happen in a "timing" vacuum, the moment atoms start spining, the relativity theory or concept of location, size/volume, speed/time became apparent to someone, God.

Sure the same way Terabytes is a measurementt concept that is hard to grasp for many people. Even in our physical dimention, things get to a point where we have a hard time forming an idea of its magnitude.

BUT it does not mean such magnitude is not real. AND if low scientist have the condescendence to express her/his higher way of measuring and thinking in terms which at least can be assimilated by less knowledgable persons, we can not expect any less from a superior well meaning creator.

A blind person can understand, assimilated color by explaining the concept in relation to her/his other senses. She/He can still hear and feel differences in sound waves and shapes of objects. Just tell her/him that there are waves (colors) that can not be detected by the ear, another sensor is required (eyes)

Using vocabulary utilized by children they can assimilate, not fully understand, adult reasoning. Our moral responsbility (given by god ) is the motive to guide them, "answer" all their question in their litle world, we are god's children...

The Global Flood

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