by Zep 75 Replies latest watchtower bible
I don't think it is right to label anyone anything except what they label themselves. If such a person labels himself Christian, who am I to say otherwise?
So, if I label myself a doctor even though I have no credentials to support this claim is that "okay"? What if I labeled myself a communist but still believed in free-market capitalism -- wouldn't my "communism" be somewhat of a joke?
I know, I know...I like word games.
:) Bradley
Well, if Christianity were a "credential", could I authorize your eternal reward, logans? Any guesses what I would chose? Since Christianity is not a professional designation, and no authority is offered those who claim it, what does it matter?
Being a Christian can be just about a philosophy of life, not really based on any "facts" from the Bible or science.It's like saying you're happy, you don't have to have concrete reasons why, you can just be a happy person.
That's a very dubious line of reasoning. A "Christian" is a title with which a certain number of minimal features are attached, otherwise the term becomes meaningless. "Happy" is a subjective condition of the mind, not a title. Someone can be "happy" by giving food to a homeless crippled child and another can be genuinely happy by torturing people. Being "happy" can be brought about by many different conditions. Not so with Christianity. If I, J. Bradley Potts, said that you must: 1) Not kill animals; 2) Be nice to humans and 3) Abstain from sex the third tuesday of every month and you only follow rules 1 and 2 can you logically be said to be my follower? I think not. Jesus said you must "Love Jehovah your God with your whole...blah, blah, blah." (Can't get that NWT out of my mind). If "loving" the horrendous God of the OT is something that Jesus said you must do, and you don't, then you are not following Jesus and are not a Christian. Christianity by it's very nature is logically linked with the OT and all manner of absolutist claims. There's just no getting around it. Bradley
I tend to agree with FunkyDerek... (I almost NEVER agree with HIM)
I was having a discussion yesterday with a friend whos beliefs are similar to mine. I realize that I am an agnostic who believes in the Being that Christians know as Jesus.... a Mystic Agnostic! Now there's one for the pidgeonholers.
Hugs and Merry Christ Mass
Brenda
Still in search of the true meaning of ... (brummie dots) ...
OK, I do label people in some cases, but I really try not to pigeon hole them. If someone came up to me and said they were a doctor, and they wanted me to drink some herb tea to miraculously heal all my ailments, I would label that person a quack. However, if someone came up to me and said they were a Christian and would pray for me I wouldn't judge that person.
The latter has actually happened to me; the neighborhood in which I work has quite a few residents that are developmentally disabled and they will actually approach you and say that. I don't put any faith in their prayers, but I thank them for the sentiment. My agnosticism doesn't give me license to doubt their faith. I would hope they afford me the same courtesy, but I realize some don't. This is the mindset of JWs that irritates me the most. "If you're not worshiping the true God with 10 hours of field service, 15 minutes of Bible reading, and having your Watchtower underlined for every study, then you're not a Christian."
Tammy
However, if someone came up to me and said they were a Christian and would pray for me I wouldn't judge that person.
Neither would I. I would most likely assume that that person was using his label of "Christian" in a logical manner. But if someone came up to me and said, "Well I'm a Christian but I don't believe in God, I think Jesus was wrong about adultury being the only means for divorce and I don't feel he was raised from the dead" I would say that that person was using her self-label of "Christian" in an illogical and almost nonsensical manner.
B.
logansrun, are you perhaps referring to an "Orthodox Christian", whom must ascribe by a select set of beliefs?
Neither would I. I would most likely assume that that person was using his label of "Christian" in a logical manner. But if someone came up to me and said, "Well I'm a Christian but I don't believe in God, I think Jesus was wrong about adultury being the only means for divorce and I don't feel he was raised from the dead" I would say that that person was using her self-label of "Christian" in an illogical and almost nonsensical manner.
Well I wouldn't know about that, since I am atheist (with agnostic leanings) and don't claim to be Christian. I think if a person did come up and say that to me I would accept that they found what works for them. There is no black and white here, and even if there was, I would be the last one to know where the line was drawn.
Merry Christmas!
Tammy
Wow. So many good comments here. But I will disagree with the OP here. Just because those are the only options you see doesn't mean those are the only options there. Derek said it best - although I doubt these words came from him, but actually came from his Christian doppleganger that kidnapped him. *tongue planted firmly in cheek*
I think there's a third way. It's possible to follow (some or all of) the teachings of the biblical character Jesus without believing all of the mythology surrounding him. For some people, to be a Christian is simply to be like Christ - compassionate, contemplative, disdainful of religious hypocrisy. A story doesn't have to be literally true to have resonance. Don't know what's come over me - must be the time of year.
My agnosticism doesn't give me license to doubt their faith. I would hope they afford me the same courtesy, but I realize some don't. This is the mindset of JWs that irritates me the most.
(Second quote above from Swan.) I appreciate that comment. Who gives anyone a license to behave that way? Certainly not Christ. My life is based on Christ's example. Not John the Baptist, not Moses, not Peter, Paul, or Mary - but Christ.
If I, J. Bradley Potts, said that you must: 1) Not kill animals; 2) Be nice to humans and 3) Abstain from sex the third tuesday of every month and you only follow rules 1 and 2 can you logically be said to be my follower? I think not.
Bradley, I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, so please do not take it that way. But those rules many people speak of that are "from the Bible", did not come from Christ when he was on earth. He had two simple rules: Love God. Love your neighbor. I do the best I can to follow those rules. Yes, I consider myself a Christian. Yes, I drink. Yes, I dance. Yes, I watch Sex and the City reruns. Tell any of the Christians at my church that and I'm sure some of them would gasp in horror. But did Christ teach us to not drink? Not dance? Not watch tv shows of women having premarital sex? It's all the doctrine back then and today that cloud what Christ taught: Love God. Love your neighbor. I am a Christian because Christ is the example of someone I would like to be every day of my life. I believe he was the Son of God. I believe he gave up everything for my good. I believe my life is lived more successfully because of the two tenants he taught. Christians that get up in arms over detailed doctrine are wasting their breath. When did Christ ever argue about drinking or dancing or any of that other stuff? He didn't. It's immaterial. THE POINT IS LOVE. It truly is that simple. Humans make it complicated by adding all the other crap. Andi
Love God. Love your neighbor
Andi, actually I believe Jesus gave us 3 commandments to replaces the 10 commandments. Everyone tends to forget "... as you love yourself". Self love is necessary if we are to truly understand what it is to love our neighbor. And to finish this in a Christian triangle sorta thing, we can only know this love because God loved us first.
Hugs
bren
