I'm afraid there are only 2 ways of being a true believin' Christian

by Zep 75 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Zep

  sunchild

  "At the risk of offending you or being completely off-base, to me, it sounds as though you're, well, a little scared. Not in the Fundamentalist "Secretly living in fear of Hell" type sense, but in the pure, human, and very understandable "I don't want to be hurt again" sense. "

  nah nah nah. I'm over all this religious crap...really.I was only a tempory "so-journer" so to speak in the JW world anyway. I was more depressed when I found out there was no Christian God at all, than when I found out the watchtower was full of BS. But now I'm a relatively happy Atheist

  Yeah look, I dont really hate Christians. I dont trust them though! They p*ss me off a lot of the time. I'm just ambivalent towards them. They are a sort of curiousity to me, like cute furry animals are to a zoologist. I think we should study them more, put them in cages and run tests on them to see why they believe such BS!!!!!!!!!....maybe we can take them home as pets and play with a little, and give them as Christmas presents nand stuff?
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  jgnat

  Cute, Zep. I am sure your mind is a curiosity as well. Care to take a good look at your motivations?
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  missy04

  Yeah look, I dont really hate Christians. I dont trust them though! They p*ss me off a lot of the time. I'm just ambivalent towards them. They are a sort of curiousity to me, like cute furry animals are to a zoologist. I think we should study them more, put them in cages and run tests on them to see why they believe such BS!!!!!!!!!....maybe we can take them home as pets and play with a little, and give them as Christmas presents nand stuff?

  So did you just start this thread to be insulting and make yourself look like a jerk?

  ~Sarah
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  Sunchild

  Yeah look, I dont really hate Christians. I dont trust them though! They p*ss me off a lot of the time. I'm just ambivalent towards them. They are a sort of curiousity to me, like cute furry animals are to a zoologist. I think we should study them more, put them in cages and run tests on them to see why they believe such BS!!!!!!!!!....maybe we can take them home as pets and play with a little, and give them as Christmas presents nand stuff?

  Interesting. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? And if you really were over the whole religion thing and ambivalent towards Christians/Christianity, 1)I doubt you'd still be on this board and 2)it doesn't make sense that you would be as hostile towards the idea as you've been throughout this topic. I'm pretty much ambivalent towards Satanists (though I do disagree with their philosophy), so I don't think about them much, and I can say in honesty that I've never started an entire message board topic about why I think they're wrong. Seems like a big waste of energy on a topic I've little interest in.

  In case you missed my other post, BTW, I actually AM one of those Christians you would like to cage, and most people seem to find me reasonably bright. *g* If you'd like to know why I am, then ask me, though it's a rather complicated story.

  Also, I notice you said that you don't believe in the Christian God. Does that mean you believe in some other form of the Divine?

  ~Rochelle, Inquisitive Class.
• 

  Zep

  sunchild

  Ok...I'll try and be as unambiguous as I can.

  Heres what I think...

  On a personal level I am over the whole Chritian thing. The fact that I cant believe in a fundamentalist sense causes me no great pain or anguish. It did around 2000 and 2001... nothing in comparison to the stories on this board, but now I'm over it. I am happy being an un-believer and even like it!!!!!!! I dont use this board for therapy or anything!!!!!!

  I agree with funkyderek and his assessment that there is a third way to be a Christian. I put rev Shelby Spong in that catagory of Christian. He is the guy who wrote "Saving the bible from fundamentalism. I admire and like the guy(Spong). I, however, could not live the life he leads. I am just no that passionate about the bible story or Christian.

  I despise any form of religious fundamentalism. I despise George Bushs view, Pat Robertson's, the Pope's, whatever, there is a long list of fundamentists. Fundamentlism in ANY form(there are varying degrees of it) is akin to lying as far as I'm concerned. I like to be blunt and use a sledgehammer on that kind of Christianity, hence my original post.

  You ask me do I believe in some other form of the divine. Not really. If you wish to define "God" or the "Divine" as something within man, then maybe, sometimes I do. I do have vague ideas an opinions but nothing concrete as to want to hang my life on it. I'm interested in things like String theory or M-theory, the new whacky ideas that are coming out of physics. I think in time they may have a great impact on religion. I was interested Jungian psychology for awhile, I think he had some interesting things to say as far as Religion goes. The Bible and Buddhism have wise and interesting things to say as far as life is concerned, and are not devoid of any use. But I feel no need to obsess about one particular holy book or God or religion. I call myself an Atheist, there is just not enough proof for me to believe in any God-like thing in an outer form; and in the case of the bible there is ample prove that that God doesn't exist, atleast in some outer manifestation like some big old guy with a white beard sitting up in heaven somewhere.

  I am 32....dont know why that really matters
• 

  Sunchild

  I despise any form of religious fundamentalism. I despise George Bushs view, Pat Robertson's, the Pope's, whatever, there is a long list of fundamentists. Fundamentlism in ANY form(there are varying degrees of it) is akin to lying as far as I'm concerned. I like to be blunt and use a sledgehammer on that kind of Christianity, hence my original post.

  Thank you for finally clarifying that, and I'm inclined to agree with you. Fundamentalism in any way, shape or form is dangerous, and I want no part of it. But you did start this whole thing off by essentially referring to ALL Christians as being of this type, which simply isn't true. You might want to be more careful how you phrase things in the future.

  I am 32....dont know why that really matters

  The truth is that, to me, you sounded much younger, like someone in their late teens going through a rebellious "I know everything" type phase. My apologies, but that's why I was curious.

  In any case, if you've found happiness in what you believe (or don't believe), I won't try to convert you. *g* You actually sound a bit Gnostic to me; you might want to look that up just to get a few ideas.

  ~Rochelle.
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  Zep

  sunchild

  "But you did start this whole thing off by essentially referring to ALL Christians as being of this type, which simply isn't true. You might want to be more careful how you phrase things in the future."

  yeah this is true, I should have worded things better. I did actually anticipate someone saying there was a third way to be a Christian. Thats why I added "true believin' " to the title of my post. In hindsight it should have said "fundamentalist".

  I dont really relate to the third definition of a Christian; funkydereks definition; Shelby Spongs definition. I know people have every right to use to the definition when talking about themselves, and if it feels right for them thats OK with me. I know Shelby Spong calls himself a Christian. But...I consider him to be a basic unbeliever like myself. He actually has more in common with me than a Fundamentalist. I'm just really not comfortable with the so-called third definition of a Christian.
• 

  Sunchild

  I dont really relate to the third definition of a Christian; funkydereks definition; Shelby Spongs definition. I know people have every right to use to the definition when talking about themselves, and if it feels right for them thats OK with me. I know Shelby Spong calls himself a Christian. But...I consider him to be a basic unbeliever like myself. He actually has more in common with me than a Fundamentalist. I'm just really not comfortable with the so-called third definition of a Christian.

  I've read a little of Shelby Spong's work, and I'm inclined to agree with you. His ideas are interesting and even useful, but I can't relate to his definition of God, or (for the most part) of Christ. I can't recall which book of his I read; I think was "Why Christianity Must Change or Die," or something to that effect. In any case, I remember thinking, "He sounds like an atheist." But he sounds like an atheist who has a better grasp of Christ's most important teachings than most people who call themselves Christians do. After all, Christ himself ephasized love as the greatest virtue for his followers to have, not some specific doctrine.

  But what Funkyderek said is a bit less radical, and I think he's right. I fit into that space somewhere: I don't take everything in the Bible literally (and I don't think that it was ever meant to be read that way, given all the trouble that literal interpretation has caused), but I do strive to be like Christ, and I do believe in something vastly greater than myself.

  But why do non-fundamentlist definitions of Christianity bother you? Is there any specific reason?

  ~Rochelle.
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  lawrence

  Zep-

  How can you be pissed off and ambivalent? I think you're pissed off, and that's great, I'm pissed off at the same people as you, and in no way ambivalent. But Missy started the ball rolling in a positive way, I believe in Christ, and I'm not a dope.
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  LittleToe

  Giving just two options sounds pretty much like black and white thinking, to me.
  There are many reasons that people are believers. Derek posted a third way, and there is a fourth, fifth, etc....

  You seem to have a pretty strict personal interpretation as to what the phrase "true believin' Christian" is.
  The devil is in the detail.

  Just my 2p as an unorthodox Christian.