Extrem earthquake near Indonesia (8,9), thousands of dead people

by Erich 81 Replies latest social current

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Roybatty,

    Is it really that unreasonable for mankind to ask God "Why?" Why did He allow over 20,000 people die this horrible death? Is He not all powerful? Is it to test our faith? Is it because He doesn't care? If one believes in the Bible, many people questioned God and received answers to much less important questions.

    If this life is a pre-test or perhaps a step to the next level, then why not let us know? What's the harm in God giving us a clear answer? That's what I can't understand. Isn't there a certain level of responsibility on His part to give us direction? To protect us? How do you view a man or woman who creates a child and then abandons them?

    You have good and valid questions. Ones I've asked myself. No, I don't feel it unreasonable to ask why. I do that all the time. And I feel that God is big enough to handle it when we get angry at Him or when we are demanding and stamp our foot. But, like a good parent, He may just know something that the small child (us) does not. If it is a test of our faith, it is not because God needs to know - He is all-knowing - He already knows. BUT, I believe many times Life tests are for our sake...for us to learn about ourselves and our purpose and our beliefs. Just because we don't know the answer now, doesn't mean we won't at some point. Again, I go back to "I don't know, but I have peace that someday I will know."

    This kind of addresses why so many people fall for the JW teachings. People were going through something traumatic in their lives when they were converted. They had questions. JWs come along and they had an answer for everything. Remember that book "Reasoning from the Scriptures"? They had every possible question you could possibly think of, the answer, and scriptural backing to it. (Even tho' usually it was some scripture twisted around and taken out of context.) Answers came in a nice, tidy little package.

    I just don't believe that ANY religion or person on this earth has all the answers. I remember my JW father asking, "Wouldn't God be a more loving God by providing us all the answers?" I tho't that made sense back then. Now I think, "Would He be loving? Aren't there things in this life that we would just never be able to comprehend? Perhaps He withholds answers because of that. Perhaps if we did know all the answers, we'd be so bigheaded we would kill ourselves in our arrogance." I guess for me it just comes back to "I have peace that someday I will know." Until then, I do the best I can with what I have and continue asking the same questions everyone else does. I just choose to believe there is something better than what this earth provides us.

    ((((Ess))))

    if god is almighty and all knowing, and I'm wrong and he does exist, then I can bet he's not offended that i don' t believe in him.

    I completely agree! I believe that God is almight and all-knowing. More than anything I think He understands where we come from, why we do what we do, and why we believe what we believe. I have a feeling He is more sympathetic to those of us who have been tricked in a spiritual sense...He understands why we are so hurt and angry. I also believe He's big enough to take it.

    I don't mean to make you uncomfortable by discussing this topic. But as exJWs we have lots to learn about information sharing and learning from other people's viewpoints. It's not personal. All of us are here sharing. Just take it in with the understanding that we're just learning from each other. I think too many times when we do give our beliefs here on this board it's taken as "Well they're trying to shove their beliefs on me" when really all we're doing is sharing. So maybe someone is trying to shove their beliefs on you - don't take it. We have a choice to take it or leave it as a difference of opinion. We also have a choice to not discuss it at all, but the only thing that comes from that is not learning about one another.

    ((((((RAYZORBLADE))))))

    I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I truly cannot fathom the loss of everyone like that. I too have a friend from Sri Lanka whose parents just happened to be visiting him here in Dallas this week for the holidays. Their city was not touched (they are from the west side of SL) so their homes and belongings are fine. But they cannot seem to get through to all their relatives from the south side of the country. They fear their brothers, sisters, and extended family are gone. They leave tomorrow for home. God be with them.

    God be with us all.

    Andi

  • core
    core

    Sword of Jah - I understand that for you there is no option but to hold to the party line - Jehovah is Righteous and we dont understand his qualities as we are imperfect - He has a way of sorting out this worlds mess and along the way lots of people will die/be killed but it will all be right in the end. If I as a parent said to mychild - "put your hand in th fire and burn so that you know I love you" and carried on a course of life that terrified my child I would be in prison - your God acts no differently to that - the Ransom arrangement - Perfect Life for Perfect Life seems to weigh as of little the millions of imperfect lives lost - and as the ransom price was paid centuries ago - what excuse is there for still waiting to give out the till receipt of a paradise earth?

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Hi Everyone,

    I am so disappointed in some of the comments in this thread. However, I do know that we're all devastated by the horrendous tragedy and we're just going at it from whichever angle we feel is right (right for us, right now).

    Of course this sort of tragedy brings up the whole "does God exist?" question. The thing is that those who are atheist, IMHO, should maybe consider that those who are not atheist are *not* all going at it from the same angle.

    So of those who do believe, we're not all of the JW mindset. Ex JW atheists (and others) sometimes think that if you believe in God you are lumped together with cultish beliefs, like the JW type beliefs. That isn't true.

    That said, I'd like to very briefly mention how I see things, just to add another opinion to this discussion.

    I don't see God as an old man in the sky sitting on a throne. I simply believe that there is Pure Divine energy which permeates things, everything in the universe. Spirit beings are just part of the natural world, despite the fact that we cannot really understand their nature.

    Have you heard of Gaia theory? (bear with me here...) That is the theory that the earth is a single living "being" and that humans upon it are simply part of this amazing organism. That is why the earth appears to heal itself if it is abused (for instance, forest fires which destroy - but eventually things grow there again). Well extend Gaia theory to the whole universe. On an energy level the whole universe is connected (look into metaphysics) and every action has an equal and opposite reaction according to Einstein. Therefore there is a widespread "cause and effect" principle.

    So there is destruction and creation. Both are unavoidable. The universe is evolving and this Divine Energy (God) permeates it. It is my personal speculation that we are all part of this evolution, us as humans, God, the earth - basically everything.

    So when there is a natural disaster, this is not a result of a conscious God in "heaven" (i.e. somewhere "up there" not connected to us) deciding that it's time for a few humans to die. Neither is it the result of a Satan doing what the heck he pleases while the God "up there" just looks on in apathy. No I believe it is simply something that happens - a destructive element. Just like our own physical death, we can't avoid it, it exists, but eventually new life springs forth from it.

    Just my opinion of course.

    Sirona

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Sirona,

    As you might know, I'm not pagan, and I don't know if your comments above are pagan thoughts, but they are new to me nonetheless. I've not heard of the Gaia theory, but I do find it interesting and worth more thought on my part. Can you recommend any readings on your thoughts? I love how so many different perspectives are brought to this table here!

    Andi

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Fleur,

    Did I say YOU personally blamed God?

    I said that I hadn't heard a good explanation from non-believers as to why disasters and death occur. I haven't.

    Personally I'm not upset with the inevitable. By upset I mean getting angry when someone dies. People die everyday. You will one day die and I will one day die (maybe not in a tidal wave, but by some method). I don't have any angry feelings towards death anymore than I have towards life (even with pain and suffering). Recently my cousin who suffered immensely with cancer died. His sister said he had suffered so much she considered his passing a blessing. Some people don't even shed one tear when a loved one dies. Does that mean they are heartless? Or that they have come to terms with the acceptance of death?

    Having said that, doesn't mean that I'm advocating apathy. Bury the dead. Help the living left behind. Let the effected nations build a warning system. Don't build homes so close to the coastline.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Hi Andi

    Gaia Theory http://www.gaianet.fsbusiness.co.uk/gaiatheory.html

    Regarding the universe having "connections" despite space or time:

    Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.
    http://www.crystalinks.com/holographic.html

    Bear in mind, though, that the "holographic universe" is a theory. However it had some interesting things to say about the possible interconnectedness of the universe on an energy or quantum level. Check out the link -the article makes some startling assertions. If you'd like to read Michael Talbot's book you can buy it here http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060922583/103-8861134-9193408?v=glance

    My ideas are "neopagan" in that they reflect a belief of God in nature (or more widely, the universe). However they are also in some respects similar to buddhist ideas.

    Sirona

  • FMZ
    FMZ

    Sirona, I couldn't have said it better. I tried, and failed... lol.

    I guess the phrase "sh*t happens" is more profound than most people realize!

    FMZ

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    44,000 now. Can we just drop the God-as-a-loving-father bullshit for a few thousand years?

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    I was listening to the reports on this disaster last night and heard a British man saying that they were praying like mad, as they were swept into the water. I wondered "why?"

    Of course I do know why they are doing it. But why do they think God would save them and let thousands of little children die, and others who are also praying like mad. That's a phenomenon I really don't get. I believe in God, but I don't think he has a hand in each and every person's life. How could he? Why would he?

    It's just a horrible, horrible, disaster. Next will be the disease epidemics. I just cry for those poor people, and the mothers wretching over their dead little children and husbands, and parents. The films they have gotten are so amazing....................it's addictive and I keep watching and watching.

  • Simon
    Simon
    You have good and valid questions. Ones I've asked myself. No, I don't feel it unreasonable to ask why. I do that all the time. And I feel that God is big enough to handle it when we get angry at Him or when we are demanding and stamp our foot. But, like a good parent, He may just know something that the small child (us) does not. If it is a test of our faith, it is not because God needs to know - He is all-knowing - He already knows. BUT, I believe many times Life tests are for our sake...for us to learn about ourselves and our purpose and our beliefs. Just because we don't know the answer now, doesn't mean we won't at some point. Again, I go back to "I don't know, but I have peace that someday I will know."

    Sorry, but this "he knows something we don't" is cobblers. It's plate tectonics, not some "magical quest".

    Maybe god just doesn't have it in him to create something that doesn't balls-up along the way?!

    Ph, and if "we don't know" then what is the point of religious people at all? All this 'helping people to get to know god'? They know less than everyone else apparently (lacking knowledge of basic natural processes) and want to explain it all as some creature that we don't know doing something that we don't want for reasons we can't fathom but really must be good even though it all looks like shit right now.

    I prefer the plate tectonics FACT myself - it makes sense and doesn't require that I contribute to any donation box.

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