Ladies and Gentlemen, Your True God, "El/Yah"

by ColdRedRain 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ColdRedRain

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(god)

  In the Tanakh ? e lōhîm is the normal word for a god or the great god (or gods). But the form ?ēl also appears, mostly in poetic passages and in the partiarchal narratives attributed to the P source according the documentary hypothesis. It occurs 217 times in the Masoretic text: 73 times in the Psalms and 55 times in the Book of Job, and otherwise mostly in poetic passages or passages written in elevated prose. It occasionally appears with the definite article as hā?Ēl 'the God' (for example in 2 Samuel 22.31,33?48).

  There are also places where ?ēl specifically refers to a foreign god as in Psalms 44.20;81.9 (Hebrew 44.21;81.10), in Deuteronomy 32.12 and in Malachi 2.11.

  The theological position of the Tanakh is that the names Ēl, ?Ĕlōhîm when used in the singular to mean the supreme and active 'God' refers to the same being as does Yahweh. All three refer to the one supreme god who is also the god of Israel, beside whom other supposed gods are either non-existent or insignificant. Whether this was a longstanding belief or a relatively new one has long been the subject of inconclusive scholarly debate about the prehistory of the sources of the Tanakh and about the prehistory of Israelite religion. In the P strand Yahweh claims in Exodus 6.2?3:

  Scholars have noted that EL, the supreme god of the Canaanite pantheon, and father of all the gods and goddesses, is frequently addressed as "Bull" or "Bull-EL" in various religious compositions found at ancient Late Bronze Age Ugarit, modern Ras Shamras, in coastal northern Syria. Israel has preserved traditions that her ancestors were of northern Syria (Haran), so as a God of northern Syria, he may have been portrayed originally in Late Bronze Age times in a "bovine" form.

  http://www.bibleorigins.net/YahwehsBovineFormsImages.html

  So this confirms all what I've said for a long time. The idea of the BibleGod is complete Bull.
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  maybesbabies

  LOL!! No kidding CRR, total Bull indeed!!
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  homme perdu

  So this proves Judaism & Christianity are invalid?
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  ColdRedRain

  Common sense proves Christianity and Judiasm invalid. This just links them to a pagan history.
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  peacefulpete

  Yes the textual and archaeological evidence strongly suggests that El, as the chief of the Gods in the Cannanite pantheon was the original god addressed in the most ancient poems and songs incorporated into the OT. Yahweh was a son of El but as the Judahites carved out a separate identity they adopted Yahweh as their patron god. Yahweh was worshipped and known in other regions but the Judah Priesthood elevated him by adopting epithets and characteristics of Baal Hadad (another son of El who also was elevated to near supremacy but his worshipers) and El. Yahweh is even at times called Baal. Yahweh, also assumed the storm god theophany from Baal among other things. The old man seating in judgement with his feet on the earth is an El image. Yahweh is also called a bull, directly stole from El. The OT stories even retained a distorted admission of this devlopement in the Aaron and the golden calf story wherein the bull is called Yahweh. The bulls/calfs being in the temple in Bethel shows that while the Judah priesthood felt embarrassment over the asssociations of Yahweh with the older gods the northern cult did not. As these other gods (eg. Baal and Yahweh) took supremacy, El in time came to be a simple noun meaning god. There have been some very detailed threads posted here but you will have to search. Here's a short one I did a couple years ago.who gave isreal to Jehovah?
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  zen nudist

  the name El from Aleph Lahmed is actually not pronounced like most think... the Aleph is a gutter sound, not quite a vowel made in the back of the throat like clearing your throat or gagging, and El comes out sounding like a dry heave... which is understandable in a desert culture

  (^_^)... likely the canaanites called out to this god first, right after the invention of beer, circa 5000bce...and begged him for mercy from his wrath as they tries to survive the vomitting phase.... oh ekhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, forgive me.... save me...oh ekhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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  Forscher

  Give me a break! El is a generic word for "god" which appears as a cognate in virtually all semitic languages. The fact that the Canaanites used this word in reference to any god does not prove the point. That is about like saying that the use of God as a name for Jehovah by trinitarians today implies a pagan origin for him. I just don't buy it.
  
  What I do buy is that Abraham came from Ur, and that among some oh the Els worshipped there was an El named Jehovah (in IMHO the modern rendering of YHWH as Yahweh is not based on reliable scholarship. The scholars have been trying to reduced Jehovah to just another Canaanite deity and siezing on a similiarly named diety in Canaan in their attempt to debunk God's word). I also buy that Jehovah was the "El" who Abraham worshipped. The rest is history.
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  Narkissos

  Forscher,

  In Hebrew the generic noun for "god(s)" is 'elohim (plural of 'eloah), not 'el (plural 'elim). The Ugarit texts are available in translation and you can see for yourself who El was in the Canaanite pantheon. This is not made up.
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  SixofNine

  Well now that I understand the pagan origen, I'll be more careful about exclaiming "Hell yeah!"

  Gee thanks CRR, now my concience is bothering me.
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  Forscher

  Greetings Narkissos!
  
  If you will check some of the earlier posts, such as Peacefulpete's, you will find that the argument that was being made was that the use of "'el" for "God" in some of the psalms was being cited to prove that the Canaanite 'El was the origin of the Hebrew god. That line of reasoning comes from certain scholars who believe that the Israelites never invaded the land of Israel as mentioned in the Bible, but rather grew from the existing Canaanites in the land. I don't buy that modern theory.
  
  I do agree with the obvious that the hebrew word most used for "God" is the plural of majesty "'elohim." Unger & White note that while it is regarded as the plural of 'eloah by most scholars they also point out that the nature of the linguistic relationship between the two is difficult to determine (Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words 1985 Ed., pg 97).
  
  In regards to the use of the word "'el" as a name in the middle east, the same authors mke the following observation "In the ancient world, knowledge of a person's name was believed to give one power over that person. A knowledge of the character and attributes of pagan 'gods' was thought to enable worshipers to manipulate or influence the deities in a more effective way than they could have if the deity's name remained unknown. To that extent, the vagueness of the term 'el frustrated persons who hoped to obtain some sort of power over the deity, since the name gave little or no indication of the god's character. This was particularly true for El, the chief Canaanite god." (pg 96.)
  
  As you can see, that pretty much disposes of the argument that was being made here by PeacefulPete and the originator of this thread.
  
  In Christ
  Forscher