Adam was perfect,...Right?

by prophecor 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  prophecor

  My wife and I were discussing Adam being a perfect creation of God. We as JW's, have always associated Adam with being such, but she tosses me a curveball and does not necessairily agree to the standard JW theology. Why? She believes that had Adam been perfect, the sins of the fathers would never have been visited upon his children, we would never have been locked out of paradise and all the ills of this world would never have been an issue.

  She does, however, agree that Adam was as close to perfection as a human being can get, being created in the image of God. Just a little lower than the angels.

  Earlier in the week we also got into a discussion about the Last Adam, Christ Jesus, being in a position that Adam could never ascribe to. Jesus was God in the flesh, whereas Adam was human.

  If one of the reasons Christ walked among men was the issue of universal sovereignty, proving that a perfect man could live according to the laws of God without breaking his commandments, then Christ being God in the flesh would be able to win, hands down! He Was God,( or a god according to JW teaching ) Adam however was not. As close to perfection as a human can get, yes...but perfect?

  You're In The No Spin Zone, What Say You, XJDubs & Others?
• 

  under74

  intersting ponderings...

  I think Adam was imperfect for the reasons your wife gives but also in that had he been perfect he would have never been tempted.

  As for Jesus....he seemed like a good guy but he had a violent fit in the house of God when he saw goods being sold....and he talked back to his mother. I'm not trying to make light of your subject here, I was kind of bothered by these stories as a kid because they made Jesus seem human...because he wasn't perfect.

  PS- do you really look like Morris Day?
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  prophecor

  Contrary to Rumor.......Giggolos' get....

  Whoa,... just joking right?

  No, but really though, it wasn't meant to be taken with absolute seriousness, I just thought, with my wife being the complicated Christian person that she is, her unique way of looking at many things we once believed is just so profound, but this was one that just made me look at her line of reasoning with such astonishment. Every once in a while, however, she really does makes me think. Outside the box that is.

  Though I married outside of " The Truth ", I often credit her for helping me in my struggle being, post JW, although in an off hand way. It was because of her that we were able to get a computer, and sometime after, I was lured to freeminds.org and thank Jehovah, the rest is history. Over 10 years of guilt pain and fear were removed in about 6 months, and a chance at a new life.

  Who says the daughters of Caanan were all bad?

  Blondie, Carmel, did you just say something?

  As regards the avitar, truly?, I look more like Austin Powers.
• 

  Narkissos

  The concept of "perfection" as applied to Adam & Eve and Jesus by the WTS is completely unbiblical imo.

  While the epistle to the Romans (not the OT) relates sin (not "imperfection") to Adam, and several NT texts ascribe some sort of sinlessness (not "perfection") to Jesus, the concept of "perfection" vs. "imperfection" has clearly been forged to match the "balance"-like doctrine of ransom. Whether it is a creation of Russell or a common feature of adventism I don't know.

  In Hebrews which uses both concepts in a specific, allegorical priestly christology, Jesus has to prove sinless under test (4:15) before being made "perfect" (2:10; 5:9; 7:28).
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  sugarbritches

  HI Phophecor--- I wish I could find a way to get a very dear friend of mine out of the JW religion- but he has been a witness for 40 yrs- I don't think it's possible to get him to see that this religion is wrong about so many things. I enjoyed your post---Sugarbritches
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  under74

  prophecor- I wasn't meaning to offend with my statements about Jesus. They're honestly things that bothered me. So I hope no offence was taken. It's good to read you're doing well after leaving and your wife brings up good points...and you listen.

  All the best to you and yours.

  PS- That is Morris Day, right?
• 

  prophecor

  p Whoa,...Just Joking Right, had to do with my opening statement " Contrary to Rumor.......Giggilos get....That's all. Giggilos Get Lonely Too was a popular song by " The Time ".

  Trust me, no offense taken whatsoever.

  I'm glad that you view her comments as having such validity, as she has been extremely instrumental, encouraging me to take a more critical and objective view of the things we as witnesses have always been taught. Though I never considered that maybe other JW's have had similar ideas as well.

  The fact that she was brought up in the Church continues to amaze me asto ways in which she stirs my thinking, as JW's have always regarded Church dogma and everything pertaining to Christendom as coming straight from the Devil.

  Her outlook and opinions have been most profound as I could never think of some of the reasoning she uses, and what's more, much of it is so simple and clear to the point, that if I could just remove the blinders I've inheirited from having been JW, I could see even clearer, even sooner.

  As regards the avitar, yes, that is the infamous Morris Day. Do I look like him in reality? Only in my wifes wildest dreams!!!
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  under74

  Whoa,...Just Joking Right, had to do with my opening statement " Contrary to Rumor.......Giggilos get....That's all. Giggilos Get Lonely Too was a popular song by " The Time ".

  Awe...bare with me...I'm slow sometimes.
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  Eyebrow2

  The big mystery to me is really this: Did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?
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  Golf

  I was told he had dimples but 'no' belly button.
  
  
  Guest77