It was all bad for me. I never learned anything from them except to hide my head in the sand and shrink from reality. Even the delusion of a "paradise earth" with my children was negative. I left my husband. He died last weekend and me and my children (because of their upbringing in a delusion, illusion, (I say tomato, you say tomaato) were ill equipped to deal with the loss, for years of course, expecting to live through Armageddon and hoping and praying my husband and children's father would make it, on and on ad nauseaum. Well, so long. Guess I've cheered everyone up! Sorry. Next time I'll try to find something positive.
my take...
by teejay 74 Replies latest jw friends
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teejay
It sound like you grew up in the Bedfort Sti area in Brooklyn NY. Did you? Many of the Brothers and Sisters you mentioned sound like familier names to me. Would love to know. ? Namasti
No, I'm not from Brooklyn. I was born and raised in Arkansas.
...can't examples of human nobility be found in Dachau, the ghetto,
the convent, the '93 Chicago Bulls and all the whistleblowers, para-
medics, father figures, nurturers, philanthropists and single mothers
throughout history?
Did we have to live a lie? Couldn't we at least have had our shot at
the real world?
Do you know what hurts me the most, teejay? I passed the same lie
on to my only son and crushed his potential just as mine had been
crushed. ? TMSOf course, human goodness and nobility can be found in those, and many other, places. My thoughts weren't to suggest that the Watchtower Society was the best place to find examples of either, simply that the religion and people of my youth weren't totally devoid of those things, as some seem to think.
As far as your son... I know there's nothing I can possibly say to assuage the pain you must now feel in having raised your son in The Truth?. One thing I'm delighted about is that I never studied with anyone to baptism; nor presided over the df'ing of anyone.Interesting post, TeeJay. Wherever did you get the idea?
... was someone suggesting that a non-JW who allowed a child to attend a few meetings was an unfit parent. That's blatant BS. wassasisterThat was partially what inspired this ? the idea that I'm an unfit and miserable and unloving father because I "allow" my loyal JW wife to take our five-year-old to the meetings. But it's also been a long-held belief of mine that the JW experience, at least for me, wasn't the total hell others seem to have experienced.
This may sound horrendous for some (even many), but I enjoyed doing the research, getting up, and then giving talks. I enjoyed going out in field service?got very good at it, if I must say so myself. Enjoyed nearly every aspect of it ? the camaraderie; the belief that what I was doing was important; that it was having a beneficial impact on my neighbors. I thoroughly enjoyed talking to people person to person on their front porch, particularly during those final years when I carried nothing but my bible and had no sales agenda in talking to them. Met some very nice people, too.
And, as mentioned, I knew/know some very fine humans who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses. Am I deluded to the point, as some suggest, that I believe these fine people couldn't have been just as humane and caring were they not JWs? Obviously not. I don't believe it was the JW religion, per se, that made them good people, although it may have played a part, as I believe many religions help to bring out the good and ethical behavior in people that may lay dormant otherwise.
Overall, I think some may have missed the point of this. Frankly, I don't give as much credit to the Watchtower Society for my self-confidence or speaking ability or sales ability as some do. If I wish, at will I can summon up those heartbreaking times when my playmates enjoyed a birthday or Christmas party while I sat alone in the library, and right now, as a full-grown man, choke up all over again just as I did when I was a kid. I learned nothing of value from such dreadful experiences.
No... I wish Sister Boyd had never come by our house and met my Mama that day way back when. I wish I never knew the name Sister Bailey, who helped my mother into the truth and played such a powerful role in our family for many years thereafter. I think my parents had the seeds of what it took to help their children reach their potential without exposing them to the pervasive cancer of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, Inc. I'm totally confident my father, mother and siblings would have done just fine.
Thanks, Golf. ;-) -
TMS
"I was born and raised in Arkansas." teejay
Arkansas(1969-1996) My wife and I were sent there as a young
pioneer couple. I replaced the Congregation Servant in a small
town who was having sex with a 15 year old girl in the congregation.
The overseer had convinced the society that the young girl was the
only viable option to handle the congregation accounts. Thus, the
two had a "reason" to get together.Although I was born in Renton, Washington and my wife in Texas,
we regard Arkansas as home. It was where we sort of made our
own life together, where our son was born in 1972.We had a Razorback decal on the bumper of our Volkswagen van.
We relished every minute of the glory years of Eddie Sutton, Lou
Holtz and Nolan Richardson. My wife frequently started her door-
to-door presentations with some reference to the previous Razorback
game.The scenery could be breathtaking: Winding Hwy. 71 to Fayetteville,
Hwy. 7 from Russellville to Dogpatch, Cedar Falls in Petit Jean State
Park, Devils Fork at Greers Ferry Lake, Mt. Nebo, etc.Surely, we have mutual acquaintances. We know hundreds of JW's in
central Arkansas, many in the western part, Pine Bluff, Searcy,
Fayetteville, Russellville, Hot Springs, etc.Wooooooooo! Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig! Souieeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Go Hogs!
tms
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wasasister
And, as mentioned, I knew/know some very fine humans who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses. Am I deluded to the point, as some suggest, that I believe these fine people couldn't have been just as humane and caring were they not JWs? Obviously not. I don't believe it was the JW religion, per se, that made them good people, although it may have played a part, as I believe many religions help to bring out the good and ethical behavior in people that may lay dormant otherwise.
Interesting, TeeJay. I was thinking just the converse of this recently.
Is it possible that all those negative experiences of being raised JW, might have been the same had they been raised in any other religion? Are fine humans, or not-so-fine humans, the product of their religion? Or do those good/bad traits transcend doctrine?
What brought me into this discussion initially, was the idea that standing in the hall during birthdays (for example) was a terrible, damaging moment. While I spent my time doing just that, I honestly think it gave me courage to face other, more important battles. I learned something very valuable while enduring the ridicule of my classmates: it is sometimes the better course to go against the majority. I stood my ground at that time, firmly believing that my ideals were correct.
Turns out, my ideals were based upon lies, but the lesson is just as valid. Nowadays, most school districts are more PC than to persecute a minority religious belief. Your daughter, if she attends public school as a JW, will be treated differently than we were. Cultural diversity is now celebrated, rather than punished.
If we are truly objective, we would admit that there is much to damage children in almost all religions - not just JW's. The majority are misogynistic, exclusionary, and based upon myth. We in the x-JW world are particularly sensitive to the wrongs perpetrated by the WTS, but even "main-stream" religions do their share of messing up kids.
The blood policy needs to change, as does shunning. The vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses never have to face these things. For them, it's all about friends and community.
Your daughter will be fine. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. Trust your own instincts, they seem pretty good from where I sit.
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teejay
Although I was born in Renton, Washington and my wife in Texas,
we regard Arkansas as home. It was where we sort of made our
own life together, where our son was born in 1972. ? TMS:I *knew* there was a reason I liked you!! :-)
Your comments about my beloved home state rekindles memories that are never far from the surface. I'm biased, but Arkansas is home to many of the finest people alive today, and, as you say, scenery almost too pretty to take in. It is a jewel of a place. Home.Wooooooooo! Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig! Souieeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Go Hogs!
Forever!
What brought me into this discussion initially, was the idea that standing in the hall during birthdays (for example) was a terrible, damaging moment. While I spent my time doing just that, I honestly think it gave me courage to face other, more important battles. I learned something very valuable while enduring the ridicule of my classmates: it is sometimes the better course to go against the majority. I stood my ground at that time, firmly believing that my ideals were correct. ? wasasister
I understand what you're saying ? just don't know if I agree with it totally.
Yes, those of us who survived the experience took with us from the JWs a strength of character?a burning will; a willingness to hold our ground against what appeared to be insurmountable odds; also, for a lack of a better way of saying it, we learned to have an undying faith in ourselves, to value our own opinions. I'm just not entirely convinced that those Life Lessons couldn't have been learned in a less painful way.
IMO, those of us who suffered through being raised JWs are damaged in ways that a lifetime won't provide time to remedy. Children are done irreparable harm, IMO, if they are constantly made to feel they don't fit in, and JW kids (at least those of my generation [or was it just my family]) experienced those feelings all the time. It's one thing to take pride in one's individuality; it's another to constantly feel like a fucking oddball 24/7. Even at the Hall, lines were drawn between the spiritually weak and the strong, and I don't have to mention the effects of marking and shunning.
Not long ago, my daughter participated in a school program... just some singing and simple dance productions. It was a delight to be there and watch her take part in ways I was never allowed. There came a time to sing this one song... a song she'd sung around the house several times leading up to the program. If I recall, it was He's Got the Whole World In His Hands.
Instead of singing her heart out like the other kids, for some strange reason she sat there mute, just as I'd done when I was a good JW kid. Out of nowhere, all of a sudden all those feelings of hurt, disappointment, fear, loneliness that I'd felt as a little kid came rushing back, and it was everything I could do to keep from bawling like an idiot... remembering when I felt like some sort of freak due to some weird religion.
While I agree that, as you say, "there is much to damage children in almost all religions - not just JW's", I think the JWs are unique in stressing their exclusive connection to god and, as a result, are ultimately more damaging than other mainstream Christian religions in it's treatment of children. And women.
Still, as I continue to assert, it wasn't all bad.