You think too much...!

by Gill 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  Gill

  Discussing JW doctrine with my parents this week, ..sigh!...I was told by my mother that I think too much and that I should just have faith in the governing body, because it 'is a progressive organization'....sigh!...what can you say? I told her that the WTBTS was just a business and unfortunately she was in a cult and 'brainwashed'. At this she screeched, 'ME! Brainwashed! You must be mad!' But the rest of what she said was more interesting. I explained to her how I thought that she had been living on a diet of lies from the WTBTS and that most of the brothers were so stupid, (myself in the past included) that they just swallowed everything that the WTBTS said and accepted it because they were afraid they would die at Armageddon if they ever questioned it.

  She said she knew that most of the brothers were stupid. They wouldn't know if they'd fell off a log, but she went to the Kingdom Hall for Jehovah, not those stupid people.

  Now she got slightly more hysterical when I said 'how can you claim to love God who you can't see when you do not love the brothers that you can see!' "Are you mad?!" is a question people think they can throw at you whenever they want if you admit to ever having seen a psychiatrist. They also feel they can ignore most things that you say as the rantings of a lunatic. I in the past had suffered from agoraphobia not total lunacy, so I believe, that what I think is not total nonsense.

  When I had told her that I had hated every single meeting I ever went to and every moment out on field service she told me how I loved every moment at the meeting and field service and had begged her to take me to the meetings always. I began to wonder who needed the psychiatric help more. I explained how I had never been in a position to refuse to go, and the fear of Armageddon had tormented the whole of my childhood.

  She said, 'we don't talk about Armageddon much now.'

  My father said, laughing 'No, you silly woman, we talk about the 'end of the system instead.'

  She would not believe anything I told her about the UN scandal. INTERNET LIES! The Mexico/Malawi scandal.APOSTATE LIES! 607 bce crap. APOSTATE LIES. etc etc. But they are both still keen to talk.

  I am about to present them with the phone number of the NGO sec at the UN and her name and address.

  Also, I will give them, from the Guardian newspaper the articles on the UN / WTBTS card scandal and a copy of the UN statement on what happened.

  My only fear is that if I actually suceed in persuading them that it is all lies, everything they have lived their life to, that it will burst their bubbles and mentally harm them. They're in their sixties.

  Their last words were 'we believe that being Jehovahs Witnesses is a protection and so we don't have to worry about anything.' Perhaps I'm just going to give them something to worry about now. I'm not totally sure that is a sensible thing to do.

  I'll let you know what happens. But what do you all think? Should I continue?

  My father is now in the process, he says, of researching the 607 or 586/587 BCE question.

  I'm concerned for them really. Any thoughts?
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  City Fan

  Hi Gill,

  My parents are in their sixties too, and I long ago decided it was better to agree to disagree. It involves a bit of lip-biting on my part. After being JWs for over 40 years I don't think I'll convince them otherwise, and I'm not sure I'd want to either.

  You parents don't seem too bad at all. I can only guess what my mother's reaction would be if I mentioned the 'cult' word! Go a bit easier on them, and your dad doing research on 607 is a good start.

  I did used to have these kind of arguments with my parents but after 15 years out I really can't be bothered anymore.

  CF.
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  JustTickledPink

  Even though I know my 61 yoa mother is being deceived, she wants to be. Her life revolves around being a JW. She can't give it up. I think if she ever realized it was all lies, she would go into a permanent catatonic state.

  The way I look at it is this, it's almost like the really old southern guy in his 80's that is still prejudice. At this point what is the purpose of trying to knock sense into him? I would just rather roll my eyes and walk away.

  The best thing you can do, is just live your life filled with the knowledge that what you're doing is right.
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  Gill

  Thanks City Fan and Justtickledpink. I'm beginning to think that what you're saying is perhaps the best way to think of it. Infact their reasonableness in discussing the issues is what makes me not want to upset them too much. Only a little bit.
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  FairMind

  I?m thinking JW man in his late fifties. Learning that the truth about the WTS has not burst my bubble or caused me mental harm. What has actually happened is I now understand why the WTS does things that are inconsistent with what the Bible teaches. So I am set free from their mind-control and able to coldly analyze their current actions and their lack of honesty. This is a good thing! When one has been part of the WTS as long as I have and has family, mate and life time friends who are "believing" JWs, they may physically remain in the organization so as to not be cut off from loved ones. Remaining a JW under these circumstances is simply a matter of keeping your mouth shut, minimal monthly FS and semi-regular meeting attendance.

  If you can lead someone (anyone) to real truths, which are simply honest facts, you have done them a favor and should feel good about what you have done.

  FM
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  Golf

  Go for it with a mild spirit. JW's are suppose to 'make sure of all things' what are they afraid of, the truth? Sounds interesting, keep the soap-opera going.
  
  
  
  
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  Freedom Fighter

  I can relate to a lot of what has been said here. Once you find out the BS behind a lot of the JW teachings it's only natural to want to share it and convince others. It becomes your own personal crusade, with the same amount of fervour that you originally had for the troof.
  
  With older people, or those well entrenched, in my view it is better to take a softly softly approach.
  Bombarding them with 'Guess what, what you have built your life around for 50+ years is crap ' will only cause their Jehoober deflection shields to spring up.
  One of the most frustrating things is trying to get through to a JW, as we all know they can take self dillusion to a really high level.
  
  My own scenario - my JW mother has been in the borg for 25+ years and only attends meetings now. She enjoys going to meetings and she has friends there. Her whole life is built around JWs, but thankfully she is of a more liberal persuasion, so it doesn't have a huge impact on our relationship. I feel that to launch a few salvos into her belief system would be counterproductive and cruel. She knows I disagree with the teachings and I don't let any JW inspired comment go by without a challenge. It's a slow process and one which must be handled carefully, drip feeding bits of info is best. Pique their curiosity so that the knowledge discovery process is something they do themselves, rather than just taking someone else's word for it.
  
  FF
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  Goldminer

  Gill,

  Don't stop talking to your parents,just do it in a kind,respectful manner using sound reasoning to draw them out.

  for example ask them,if a person didn't believe or agree with a wt teaching,he would be considered spiritually weak,if he expressed his feelings verbally,he might be considered an apostate....BUT when the WTS changes their minds about something,it's "NEW LIGHT"??????????????

  now there's one for serious thought!
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  Odrade

  It totally depends on the parents, Gill. I suspect that the ones who still continue to ask and want to talk about specific doctrine can handle it if their "eyes are opened," and they realize what they are involved in. Then there is another type that doesn't ask at all, avoids the issue, or only asks questions on an emotional level. It seems these are the ones that shut down and are "happy" staying involved with their eyes blinded. Maybe it is a disservice to forcibly awaken those ones.

  Your mom sounds like she has her head in the sand, but maybe your dad... since he's willing to listen and do "research," is worth continuing to try and waken. Maybe he is the one responsible for looking after your mother's mental state.

  No one can tell you whether or not you should continue talking to your parents about this. Trust your gut. There are many here who say that older parents who are deep in the organization should not have the lies exposed to them. But I and some others here feel that even if they are older with years of service, in many cases they still deserve to know the truth.
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  stopthepain

  Gill--I have a similar scenario.I think that men in general can reason better in this situation.So with your dad,emotions may not be playing a big part in all of this.My father has been in and out of the falsehood now many times,he runs hot and cold with it,and he cant stand the organization at times,but he still believes this is the closest thing to the "truith" out there.

  My mom on the other hand,just needs to be involved.I truly don't believe she will ever let go.I sometimes feel guilty for trying to convince her otherwise.I also pity her in a sense because I think traumatic experiences in her life made her think this was the answer.

  Sounds like you should direct more of the cut and dry bull at your dad,and pity your mom.Maybe if your dad changes,your mom will follow.