by Norm 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
It's amazing that religious drivel has been relegated to the scrap heap that other supersticious mumbo-jumbo has: things like "thunder is the gods fighting". All the things that people ignorant of the facts invented to explain the (then) unexplained.
Of course religion is now a massive franchise and huge money-making operation ... and nothing else.
Hey Valis:
Pickled Herring or Mescal, same shit.
Hope you are well down there in Bush country and
enjoying life at it's fullest.
A Paduan
You said:
"To say "christian" and then put up a jw point of view/theme as example (subjection to rulership - a jw favourite) is like a straw man argument against christianity - I say that I am christian because I could hear and identify, without need for or the utilising of superstition - I could agree and be who it is "I am". The jw subjection and rulership trip is a whole other kettle of fish."
Really? I think they are identical twins. But you must feel free to bring your own explanation of the presence of suffering and pain in a world where a just and loving Christian God is in control. I for one would just love to have this cleared up once and for all. Preferably without resorting to superstitious and supernatural arguments.
Norm
I heard an interesting one, that left me flabbergasted, the other day.
One individual told me that they thought that we were all animals and things like the Tsunami incident were simply His way of culling population growth
Not a million miles away from the atheists' position regarding causality, I suspect - identical twins...
Little Toe, You seem to be very ignorant as to this atheists position. What's there to explain from an Atheist's viewpoint? There is no evil, malignant force in nature. If you live in an earthquake you might die from an earthquake. If you live near a volcano, you might die from an eruption. If you live near the seafront in a known tsunami aera, you might die in a tsunami. No need for any fanciful explanations involving an imaginary man in the sky. Nature is dangerous, the earth isn't a safe place, living in itself actually eventually end with death. These are verifiable facts as we can observe them all the time. Of course the death of people due to natural disasters and other causes are tragic events. I for one don't find any pleasure or meaning in such tragedy. I don't see any kind of outside force "culling" population growth. In nature we can observe quite natural processes "culling" population growth in certain species habitat when they outgrow their resources, this is however at least not yet the case with the human species. It is only when superstition comes into the picture any kind of "explanantion" is reguiered. Something I am pretty sure will never come from your direction. Norm
My Norweggyan friend, it was stated "tongue in [mouth] cheek"
Something I am pretty sure will never come from your direction.
Alas, I am content to confess that "I do not know"...
Seeing "danger around every corner" is merely an economy of scale. I would rather fear only fear itself and stoically face whatever life chooses to throw at me
This bit is taken from http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/et_124.htm . Although the article presents a lot of BS to justify the Tsunami, some points are interesting:
From a biblical perspective the Tsunami tragedy is purely an act of God, because there are no human factors to blame. There are no loggers to blame for clearing forests, no engineers to fault for poor design or construction, no government planners to call to account for allowing urban development in risky places. The slipping of the tectonic plates on the ocean-bed off Sumatra, cannot be blamed on global warming or on the lack of adequate precautionary measures. What happened is beyond human capacity to influence or control.
Some Christian wish to blame the Devil for such natural disasters, but nowhere the Bible attributes to Satan power over weather, natural phenomena or disastrous events. Satan is sometimes called the prince of this world (2 Cor 4:4, John 12:31, 14:30, Eph 6:12), but his power appears to be limited to tempt and deceive.
For Christians who believe in God as Creator and Controller of this world, there is only the difficult conclusion that the responsibility for the Tsunami disaster rests directly with God. Scripture tells us that God controls the rain (Deut 11:14-17, 28:12, Job 5:10, Matt 5:45, James 5:17-18), lightning (Ps 97:4), thunder, snow, whirlwind, flood, clouds Òto accomplish all that he commands them on the face of the habitable world, whether for correction, or for his land, or for love, he causes it to happenÓ (Job 37:12-13; cf. Job 28:10-11, Ps 107:25, 29, Nahum 1:3-4).
God causes earthquakes (Job 9:5, 28:9, Ps 18:7, 77:16-18, 97:3-5, Isa 2:19, 24:20, 29:6, Jer 10:10, Nahum 1:5, Heb 12:26), and the mountains to be thrown down and the valleys to fill (Ezek 38:20). The forces of nature never spiral out of GodÕs control. They are controlled by God who Òshakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars trembleÓ (Job 9:6). God Òlooks on the earth and it trembles, touches the mountains and they smoke!Ó (Ps 104:32).
Hey Little Toe,
You said among other things:
"Alas, I am content to confess that "I do not know"..."
A very wise position indeed. One that will no doubt spare you from
much embarrassement.
Norm
Norm:
...as well as being far more logical (in the absence of evidence either way) than stating either:
I've often wondered...
If Adam and Eve (and, evidently, "Satan"!) all had "perfect minds" how is it that they could have even sinned in the first place. At what point does "sin" enter the picture? In action? Well, all action is accompanied and preceded by thought. So, was the sin in the thought? If so, how could someone with a "perfect" mind ever even develop within them a train of thought that would lead to a "sinful thought"?
One could say, "well, they had free will." Besides being a dubious concept -- free from what, exactly? -- it still seems to beg the question. How could someone "perfectly free" and with a "perfect (sinless) mind" ever stumble onto "sin"?
B.
I dont know what the hell is going on in this world. At least we can all count ourselves fortunete to have the luxury of being alive instead of being dead. For now.
