to Maximus

by anon 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    All Christian groups preach to a greater or lesser
    degree. Simply saying that Witnesses have the 'truth'
    because they go door to door is wrong.

    A huge amount, maybe most, of the Witness work is
    just pretense, phoney, -- bluntly put, a fraud. Witnesses
    commonly count hours of time while spending only a
    few actual minutes talking to someone - AND THAT often
    involves small talk and selling Awake magazines about
    mundane subjects vaguely related to anything scriptural.

    If you really think that much of a 'ministry' is taking
    place, you have to ask 'Why is this witness work so
    utterly ineffective?' A CAREFUL ANALYSIS of baptisms
    in Western lands will show you that most are kids
    or people who knew/are related to Witnesses. Also,
    the rate of growth amoung many Protestant groups is
    higher than the organization, further telling you
    how irrelevant most of this 'ministry' is.

    Finally, a true story about early Christians.
    Scholars found that some early Christians had odd names
    related to garbage or excrement! The reason was that Romans
    commonly dumped babies they didn't want in sewers or
    trash heaps. Christians came and rescued babies and raised
    them as their own (perhaps with a name that suggested their
    origin). The Romans thought this was ridiculous, that
    parents had a right to determine what children should live
    or not.

    Obviously, the early Christians showed a lack of regard
    for putting in time in the door to door ministry. Think
    how many more publishers could be made if they didn't waste
    time taking care of someone elses' child. The babies
    would just get a resurrection anyway, right?

    The Witness 'ministry' at present, is an ugly, selfish
    narrow thing, barely a ministry at all. Don't tell me
    "we do it for love of neighbor" - you know for most
    Witnesses, it's peer pressure - and the fear of being
    destroyed at Armageddon.

    metatron

  • julien
    julien
    As for the Hitler danger reference, if you had been born in Germany you would have been shirking your duty if you did not try to put the world under Hitler.

    It's a bit like saying:

    claim: Parents should love their children.
    response: Yeah, well some children (teens) have killed their parents! If you were those parents you would have loved your own murderer!

    Anyway I would say it is perfectly moral to defend our country (or ally, or neighborhood, or family, or self) from attack. This does not mean support your government no matter what.

  • ros
    ros

    Hello, anon:

    Like you, Witnesses invariably ask the question of who is fulfilling the preaching work of Matt.24 & 28.

    May I ask you 2 questions about it?
    1) What do you say the "good news of the kingdom" is?
    2) Why do you believe house-to-house distribution of the Watchtower is preaching?

    I don't ask this to seem antagonistic, I hope it does not seem that way. I'm especially interested in what you say about question 1.

    Ros

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer
    Also, I have been going door to door for 35 years and would have to state that I do see a difference between JW's and other groups.

    Two examples:

    Preaching - If JW's are not carrying out Matt 24 & 28, who is?
    Neutrality - JW's stand out here too in not killing their fellow man.

    Anon,

    I see some differences too. Just how meaningful they are is not certain to me. I agree, one difference has to do with earnest preaching, though some individuals do this even though they are not associated with us, and it is to their credit I believe. While I do not believe everything the WTS promotes as "good news" is good news in terms of what Jesus taught as good news, I do think Jehovah’s Witnesses encourage the Bible’s message of good news by reminding people of the Bible’s import, whether they listen to and accept our entire range of teachings or not. This is similar to what is described of early Christians. They did not always have it right.

    The Bible does have Jesus saying that he would use human beings as his disciples in disseminating his good news; therefore it is appropriate for those believing in the Bible to look for those ones.

    In referencing Matt 24, I assume you have verse 14 specifically in mind. If so then my sentiments above apply. If, on the other hand, you have in mind Jesus’ giving an answer for a sign according to the question of verse 3, then I must admit some divergence from the teachings of the WTS. I would agree it is possible that the text has Jesus providing a means by which his followers could identify a time when he was ruling as king (one thing they were most interested in, and that they asked about). But I would disagree that it is vitally important for us to identifying when Jesus is ruling as king, or any time period as "the conclusion of the system of things." More than anything else Jesus expressions show that his followers should remain strong in spirit as his followers. That they should remain ready in faith at all times.

    Earlier you sent an email request to me. I have answered. Check your email inbox.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    G'day all and especially anon for posting here. Welcome, brother!

    I do agree wholeheartedly with many of the points made here concerning the Watchtower's self-glorification. You may be interested to know that despite what the Society tells us, the Witnesses are NOT the fast growing group of Christians that we led to believe. Here in Oz the established churches are having mixed fortunes but people are flocking in their thousands to some churches. In the state of NSW it's the Anglican Church, which is evangelical in that state, which is having good growth in numbers. Do they organise door-to-door proselytising? No, but by what we might call informal witnessing and other means of outreach they are reaching people with the Good News. And showing faster growth thatn the Witnesses. There is less support for the house-to-house method in scripture than you might have believed.

    I do so much like the way Maximus has expressed the current organisational situation:

    For me, it is not so much how JWs stand out from other groups, but one major concern is that admittedly fallible men are insisting they be looked on as de facto infallible even when unable to answer reasonable questions; i.e., a governing body that operates by vote, not even consensus much less unanimity, and a group of individuals who transmit that as "policy" or position.
    One is told to be humble, wait on Jehovah. (Translation: wait on organizational change, a shift in the vote or external pressure that forces an issue.)
    Again we have the standard cult response. If they (the JW org) are not a cult, why do they act like one?

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    "So often, the unpolished
    the disjointed
    Is on its way to the truth
    Ahead of the finished
    the polished."

    Ken Walsh, Sometimes I Weep

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