Argument from an elder on why to not leave the JWs...

by undercover 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  upside/down

  I love that line of reasoning... So is that an admission of guilt?

  If so than how do you mesh that with the counsel to "get of her my people- if you do not want to share in her sin..." and "bad associations spoiling useful habits" and "from these turn away" etc etc?

  Also, just because people in charge were "apostate", didn't mean individual family heads went along with it. They weren't forced to go out in the ministry and meetings etc. They still lived their normal lives they just refrained from partaking in any "apostate" religious practices. That is what many people on this forum seem to be doing - refraining from participation in what is false (WTS). Not pursuing what is evil (well at least some of us hehehe)lol

  So I would ask that elder, if the WTS is "guilty" of things like the Israelites- What exactly are they "guilty" of? And at what point does it become obvious that J has rejected them as the He did the Israelites, and who is the replacement, if any? Can individuals serve "God" just as those ancient family heads must have under "apostate" Israel? Can it possibly be EXACTLY as Jesus stated the each of us will have an accounting individually?

  Prepare to be shunned at point blank range!

  u/d
• 

  garybuss

  What would some of ya'll say to an elder that presented this argument?

  I'd say goodbye! It's like saying he doesn't leave the Jehovah's Witness group because all the apples didn't fall off the tree last winter. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
  
  If he believes the Hebrew Bible is accurate, he can't be a Witness. If he believes the Hebrew Bible is inaccurate, he has no basis to be a Jehovah's Witness.
  
  It's a good example of what happens when an auto mechanic or a janitor tries to explain religion.
  
  
  
  
• 

  PinTail

  This argument is presumptuous at the very lest: "Today, if we see something that doesn't make sense in the congregation, or a doctrine can't be explained to our satisfaction are we going to forsake Jehovah because the WTS can't answer every question to everyone's satisfaction? We have to be willing to wait on Jehovah as those in the wilderness waited and those under bad kings waited. To leave shows disrespect for Jehovah's arrangement and selfishness." Why must this elder assume the organization is Jehovah and Jehovah is the organization? This is the major reason Jehovah is not behind the Watch Tower society besides many other reasons encompassing false hoods, and behaving with a cult mentality. Why the members do not comprehend this point goes beyond all reason.
• 

  undercover

  It's a good example of what happens when an auto mechanic or a janitor tries to explain religion.

  ROFLMAO...the elder in my story owns his own cleaning business...too funny.
• 

  95stormfront

  Seem to me that to carry that thought along even further, the Isrealites eventually fell into disfavour with God. Stands to reason that even if you could beleve that JWs are the chosen people of God now, with all their leaderships prophetic blunders and inane pharisaical policies that surely their out of disfavour too.

  Too often JWs will point to the Isrealites as falling into disafavour with God through their conduct but fail to apply that same standard to themselves.
• 

  SixofNine

  People seldom renounce their citizenship over religious disputes. But every now and then, some Isrealite would run a spear thru another Isrealite he percieved to be corrupting true worship. Ask the elder if that is what he's recommending ;)
• 

  upside/down

  I'm just curious how they explain the account where Jehu threw a festival to Baal and "ordered" all Israelites to attend or die. He turned the tables and showed that faithfullness to J superceded faithfullness to him (the head of J's "org" at the time). Those Israelites knew "the law" and were held accountable to it, just as the citizens of nations are today (ignorance is not a good excuse).

  So if the WTS told you to jump off a cliff..... sadly many would (are?)

  They will suffer the fate for not taking their spirituality and relationship with "God" into their own hands!

  LOL- along with your comments... Someone posted "60-70% metally-ill, power crazed janitors" are the bulk of the "middle-management" in the bOrg. So true!

  u/d
• 

  AlanF

  Good point, PinTail. That statement is just another way of stating the Fundamental Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses: Thou shalt view the Governing Body as thou viewest God and obey it as thou wouldst God himself.

  AlanF
• 

  lonelysheep

  What a bunch of BS!

  He came back with the examples of the Israelites in the wilderness and under the various kings. The nation of Israel was still God's people despite their hardheadedness and sins. When the kings disobeyed and many of the people took up false worship, 1 there were always those that still loved and worshipped Jehovah truthfully. When the spies brought back bad reports from the land of Canaan, many failed to trust in Jehovah to lead their armies but some still trusted in Jehovah and were willing to go as Jehovah instructed.

  Even though the nation as a whole had gone astray, there were still those faithful to Jehovah. Did they go out on their own and leave the nation? Did they ignore all the laws and commandments since the nation as a whole was showing disrespect to Jehovah? No. Jehovah still called them his chosen people and those that were really faithful 2 endured the bad times along with the good. They waited on Jehovah.

  Today, if we see something that doesn't make sense in the congregation, or a doctrine can't be explained to our satisfaction are we going to forsake Jehovah because the WTS can't answer every question to everyone's satisfaction? We have to be willing to wait on Jehovah as those in the wilderness waited and those under bad kings waited. 3 To leave shows disrespect for Jehovah's arrangement and selfishness.

  1: This would mean that the WT is Jehovah and that we are being instructed through them by him. We all know this isn't true, and they can't prove it. But those who believe what they say is all true, would certainly see this as true. I once did.

  2: "Endured bad times" ...something they have their own definition for. Meaning, stick with us no matter how wrong we really are. This has nothing to do w/god.

  3: Again, how is this jehovah's arrangement, the WT that is??? Their own self-proclaimed truth that really is a fallicy.
• 

  Swan

  Undercover,

  As I recall, the faithful ones who didn't follow the wicked kings, still stuck around instead of getting out while the getting was good. They were captured and enslaved by the Babylonians like everyone else. Jehovah let it happen. Only when they were cast into a lion's den or a fiery furnace did Jehovah actually show his appreciation. But they still went back to being slaves, albeit slaves in a high position now.

  Then the Persians captured the Babylon and kept the Israelites slaves for a bit longer. They finally let them go home, where they had to arduously toil to completely rebuild their city and homes. Yeah, they really made a winning decision there to stick around with kings they knew weren't serving Jehovah.

  Tammy