Argument from an elder on why to not leave the JWs...

by undercover 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  steve2

  According to the Bible, Jehovah did eventually reject his own "organization" - he sent prophets to the kings who often persecuted the prophets. His "organization" apostasized over and over and over again. It was individuals (e.g. prophets) who tried to call them to repentance. Ask the JW elder who the modern-day prophets are that they kings (e.g., governing body) are persecuting?

  Viewed from this perspective, the Hebrew Scriptures supports the work of the modern-day individuals who are persecuted (e.g., kicked out and shunned) by the organization
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  Incense_and_Peppermints

  it's useless, in my view, tyring to argue with any jw's about anything...
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  steve2

  it's useless, in my view, tyring to argue with any jw's about anything...

  Then please don't argue ...present your view as something you're puzzled about and want to receive a good theocratic answer to. Tell the JW that you have confidence in their ability to give the matter thoughtful consideration. Tell them you're sure the argument you're presenting is flawed and want help in identifying the flaw more clearly. You value their input, etc etc. Remember that scripture we loved to use as we tried our clever witnessing techniques on householders: 'Innocent as doves, crafty as serpents' -or something like that.

  There is nothing quite so potent and disturbing as the softly softly approach. The aim is not to overwhlem or to corner, but raise a question that lingers. Whether anything positive results is neither here nor there. And it's a good idea not to press the issue.
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  jgnat

  ...so I imagine all those prophets who challenged these faithless kings were not "waiting on Jehovah".

  Confrontation with kings (Jeremiah 36:27), (1 Kings 22:8), (Isaiah 7:1-19)
  Opposition to inequality (Jeremiah 22:13, 7:5), (Ezekiel 18:7), (Isaiah 3:14-15)

  http://www.westminster.edu/staff/brennie/prophets.htm
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  Golf

  I'm with you Peppermint, I'm not a dog chasing it's tail!
  
  
  Guest77
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  A Paduan

  Re: Argument from an elder on why to not leave the JWs... Catholics 2000 yrs ago Jewish community.
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  Big Tex

  Even though the nation as a whole had gone astray, there were still those faithful to Jehovah. Did they go out on their own and leave the nation? Did they ignore all the laws and commandments since the nation as a whole was showing disrespect to Jehovah? No. Jehovah still called them his chosen people and those that were really faithful endured the bad times along with the good. They waited on Jehovah.

  I heard this in 1988 when I was in the process of leaving. My response was two fold. What did Jehovah want faithful Israelites to do durning the bad kings? There would be no priesthood, the temple would be used for Baal (or whatever they were into) so Joe Spare Israelite had to do his best to follow the Law on his own. If he blindly followed what Jehovah's chosen organization said during that time, he would actuallay be sinning against Jehovah, wouldn't he?

  Secondly what about 'faithful worshipers of Jehovah' in the first century? Not the christians, but the Jews. They were part of Jehovah's inspired (and personally chosen) organization. The leaders of that inspired organization would have told them to have nothing to do with the apostates of christianity; no doubt anyone leaving would be shunned for life. And yet leaving the jewish organization for the christian was the choice approved by Jehovah. So there are times aren't there when the individual must go against Jehovah's organization and make their own choices.

  Needless to say, my elders weren't thrilled with this but several of them admitted I had a point.
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  minimus

  One would have to ASSUME that God picked JWS to be his people. There is no evidence that God would use people to represent him when the people constantly falsely prophesy in the name of God. Deuteronomy speaks against such ones.
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  M.J.

  An essential practice of logical reasoning is that you first check your assumptions. All JW reasoning is heavily based on BIG assumptions, which have already been pointed out. Another thing to remember is that many other organizations make the same assumptions. As an example, there's this church called the Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) based in the Philippines (5-10 million members) which makes the following statements:

  Like Israel and the Church of Christ in the first century, the Church of Christ which emerged in the Philippines in these last days and which has spread in different parts of the world, is also chosen by God. It also enjoys the same right and privilege to serve and worship Him which is also firmly grounded on biblical testimonies. Here is one of the numerous prophecies testifying to the Church of Christ in these last days as God's chosen people: "'You are My witnesses', says the LORD, 'And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me'." (Is. 43:10, NKJV) ("God's own special people", God?s Message, December, 2001.)

  God?s persistence in sending messengers is proven by the list of men whom He commisioned to preach His words from different dispensations of time?Noah in the era of the patriarchs, Moses and the prophets of Israel, the Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles at the beginning of the Christian dispensation, and Brother Felix Y. Manalo in these last days, to name a few. God did this because, "he had pity on his people and on his swelling place" (II Cron. 36:15,ibid.) --(Pasugo, May/June 1990, p.5.)

  Undoubtedly, the members of the true Church - the Church of Christ that emerged in the Philippines - are the prophesied servants of God in these last days. They have been elected or chosen by God. Because of their election, they received the right and privilege to serve God as had the Israelites and the first-century Christians. It is on this election that this Church attributes its success. ("God's own special people", God?s Message, December, 2001)

  Such a mentality applies to pretty much every self-professed "True Church" out there: http://www.theholdemans.com/Compare.htm
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  Goldminer

  "wait on jehovah" is just another of their slogans.

  We had a lot of BS going on here a few years ago and a sister finally said to me;"just wait on Jehovah "

  my response was:"well,if that's the case then I could have just stayed in the catholic church and said of all the BS there,I'll just wait on God to take care of it".Her jaw dropped,she knew I was right and that the jw's were no better than any other religion if they couldn't take care of their problems and always had to resort to samw old slogan.