The Supremes Abolish 4th Amendment

by Amazing1914 45 Replies latest jw friends

  • kwintestal
    kwintestal
    One thing that does surprise me is the roadblocks the police are allowed to set up to catch drunk drivers. It's one thing to have a reason to pull someone over and then suspect that they're up to something, it's something else to pull over every driver coming down the road and check to see if they have been drinking.

    I think the difference with that is that they're being indescriminate about who they're pulling over. They would have a problem if they were singling people out because then it gets down to suspiscion being the reason for pulling over a vehicle.

    Kwin

  • Satanus
    Satanus
    If your not doing anything wrong, why would you worry?

    It's that old line. The point is that if the govt, one of it's agents, or a private enforcer wants to get somebody, they can. They can now sift your life, searching for the gnat that will nail you. In the mean time, if imaginary drugs are involved, they can sieze and hold your property.

    S

  • prophecor
  • outoftheorg
    outoftheorg

    I remember conversations like this when I was a child. All the aprehension about some new tactic the police were using and how this would result in us losing all of our rights and all.

    The constitution was being destroyed. The police would crash into the houses of innocent people and all.

    This was 55 / 60 yrs ago. It never happened.

    As technology grows the criminals will use this to continue their illegal acts.

    The police will have to step up their technology to keep up. The use of a dog to sniff the air around a car, where a driver is unusually nervous or showing signs of fear is hardly an act of invasion of privacy.

    If so we would have to stop all the police from giving a sobriety test to a driver, because the cop smelled liquor on the drivers breath or maybe he slured his speach.

    This line of thought remindes me of the jw's always preaching the world is going to hell and we will all die.

    This court decision does not change the 4th amendment it still stands and can be used as a defence in court.

    If we are not doing illegal acts, what do we have to fear is a legitimate question.

    Outoftheorg

  • Why Georgia
    Why Georgia

    Personally I think it doesn't matter because if you aren't breaking any laws why do you need to worry....

    But....

    If a police officer really wants to search anything all he has to do is call another one of his brothers in blue that will back him up and lie for him and then it won't matter if they have a warrant, probable cause or anything.

    The blue wall is very tough and it doesn't really matter what the laws of the country are if there are 2 police officers together who will back eachother up to get the result they are looking for.

    Alot of police officers really are no better than the criminals they are locking up.

    To use a Witnessism...

    Bas association spoils useful habits.

    And who do police officers associate with all day long....Criminals.

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    Hi Outoftheorg,

    I remember conversations like this when I was a child. All the aprehension about some new tactic the police were using and how this would result in us losing all of our rights and all. The constitution was being destroyed. The police would crash into the houses of innocent people and all. This was 55 / 60 yrs ago. It never happened.

    Other than your general impression, you fail to cite even a single specific instance where this is true, or where the US Supreme Court did such things.

    As technology grows the criminals will use this to continue their illegal acts. The police will have to step up their technology to keep up. The use of a dog to sniff the air around a car, where a driver is unusually nervous or showing signs of fear is hardly an act of invasion of privacy.

    Yes it is an invasion. Being nervous is not a crime. being nervous is natural, especially where a person is not experienced with the police.

    If so we would have to stop all the police from giving a sobriety test to a driver, because the cop smelled liquor on the drivers breath or maybe he slured his speach.

    No. Driving is not a right, nor has it even been. Being searched without a warrant is a right, and it was just taken away. I could care less about the sleeze-bag druggie they caught ... I do care about the dangerous precedant, as it erodes an important right.

    This line of thought remindes me of the jw's always preaching the world is going to hell and we will all die.

    There is no correlation to JWs whatsoever. Such a reference is rather a false "ad hominem" argument. JWs are weird little a cult. Our system of government is not a cult ... but with such erosions over time, it can be corrupted ... history has proven time and again how corruption can ruin societies. Germany went from being a democratic society to a full bloen Nazi state in about twelve years. That is a reality that can happen to us if we are not vigilent.

    This court decision does not change the 4th amendment it still stands and can be used as a defence in court.

    You are living in fantasy land my friend. This decision does erode the 4th Amendment, because now the police can always argue they felt suspecious, and so started searching ... without a warrant, and then cite this case precedant. Any 4th Amendment defense is meaningless. It is also fact that some states have eroded the same right ... for example, a few years ago, the State of Oregon said that suspecion was enough to search, and a warrant was not necessary.

    If we are not doing illegal acts, what do we have to fear is a legitimate question.

    That is the same old argument use to justify anything. Then, why was the 4th Amendment put there in the first place? It was to protect we the people, as the boss of our servant, the goverment, from abusing us ... or have you forgotten your history?

    Jim Whitney

  • roybatty
    roybatty
    The man got nervous

    Do you get nervous when a cop pulls you over? I don't. I may get mad and a little pissy with him because I was speedy and now I'm going to get a ticket but why get nervous?

    If the driver was nervous, doesn't that give the police officer some cause for alarm?

    This whole "1984" thinking has really got out of hand. Just like when we discussed the Patriot Act and the "lost" freedoms. Like I said before, what can't you do now because of either of these laws?

    There are so many other "abuses" that people should be worried about. If you want to worry about something, try getting into a fight with the IRS. Without any type of due process, they can seize your home, bank accounts or anything else they'd like. WIth them, you are guilty unless you can prove your innocence. The only people who need to be worried about police dogs sniffing around your car are drug dealers. There are many areas that the government search people. What about at an airport? When my kids and I cam back from Mexico they had dog out in full force sniffinf everyone's luggage.

  • Mecurious?
    Mecurious?

    It's that old line. The point is that if the govt, one of it's agents, or a private enforcer wants to get somebody, they can. They can now sift your life, searching for the gnat that will nail you. In the mean time, if imaginary drugs are involved, they can sieze and hold your property.

    This is exactly the point! Lets assume for example that a cop pulls you over because your affiliated with a certain group that he doesnt like (take your pick).

    What would stop a dirty cop from planting drugs on your person or vehicle? Unless you are wealthy or have connections you'd be f**ked in a situation like this. This kind of thing happens more than people think.

    M'

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    The "teeth" of the "beast"- the IRS

    I'm skeeeered of the IRS... more than the demunz!

    Those f*ckers wrecked my life. And YOU WILL NOT WIN with them.

    u/d (they whooped my ass- ouch!)

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    Mecurious,

    Excellent points ... and it has happened, and continues to happen. That is why we need checks and balances to protect us from police abuse.

    Roybatty,

    Do you get nervous when a cop pulls you over?

    I use to. The first time I was pulled over, I was asked to sit in the police car. I was so damn scared, that I pissed in my pants ... and made a big puddle on the police car seat. Now that I am older, I have nerves of steel ...

    I am not going to defend bad guys ... nor attack cops ... most cops are good and do a good job, and I highly respect them ... but nervousness is not grounds for probable cause. Some people are nervous, and with such extensive police power, they can be made to look very guilty, when in fact, they did little to nothing wrong.

    Jim Whitney

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