by Amazing1914 45 Replies latest jw friends
If this modification to the 4th amendment will help track down and catch any terrorist; many Americans will go along with it.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. "
Benjamin Franklin
Actually Franklin There are organized drug dealers that are being viewed as terrorists now. Their actions and killings are taking on a terrorist set of methods.
South america has seen organized drug dealers attack the government and kill judges. It took military action to stop them. Then another takes over. This is a world in turmoil from several directions.
Outoftheorg
undercover....interesting quote by Ben Franklin....but we are no longer fighting the British ( at least some of us are not....)
Do you think that the forefathers of the Constitution ever envisioned a time when the freedoms of this country would be used to protect and harbor terrorists? Terrorists who are intent on destroying it?
I do not think they could have forseen the events that led up to 9/11; or the fact that this "home of the free and the brave" would be under attack from an enemy ; using our own laws and technology against us.
I am not sure what the answers are; but having been directly hit by the 9/11 events in New York and having lost 4 friends prematurely to what amounted to nothing more than a government unable to control or stop terrorists on our own soil; I can say that something has to be done....on EVERY level to prevent terrorist cells from any kind of future attack. I am not alone in that demand on the government.
Those of us who have nothing to hide are not perturbed by a search warrant. The government has ALWAYS had the ability to do whatever it wants in the name of NATIONAL SECURITY; so what freedom are we actually losing;
or was it an illusion of freedom we object to losing?
I am sure that the drug lords are a problem. This has actually BEEN a problem for some time.
Perhaps I feel the 9/11 tragedy more because; I am not threatened personaly by drug lords in New York, while they exist; they do not pose a threat to me or my way of life.
The terrorists that hit on 9/11 did disrupt my life in a very tthreatening way. I will never feel as carefree safe or secure in New York again; hesitate to bring my children into town for fear of a possible attack . New York is still on a high elevated alert . Major buildings and landmarks are targets.
It is a real fear that has become part of our lives. I resent living my life with such fear.
Do you think that the forefathers of the Constitution ever envisioned a time when the freedoms of this country would be used to protect and harbor terrorists? Terrorists who are intent on destroying it?
Terrorists who are intent on destroying "it" I assume means intent on destroying our freedoms. Terrorists use fear to try to gain their objective, hence their name "terror-ists". To give up freedom so that the government can have more power to keep us safe is giving in to fear of terrorism, thereby validating their mode of operation, thereby helping them to gain their objective.
Hi Bryan,
I could care less about the sleeze-bag druggie they caughtWhat about the kids he may have sold his $250,000 worth of drugs to?
What I meant by the sleeze-bag druggie, is that my concern for protecting our 4th Amendment rights does not mean I am concerned for the druggie. I was not equating this with the damage he would cause to innocent victims ... rather, I am glad that he was caught. My concern is for the method.
I do understand that we need to protect our rights, but there is a very fine line, I believe, we need to ride.
Perhaps ... but the fine line seems to be in the direction of harming our rights.
At first you said the "case that has demolished the 4th Amendment".
Later you said, "This decision does erode the 4th Amendment".
I think even you see that the 4th Amendment may be weakened perhaps, but not destroyed (demolished).
I can best explain it this way: It is like a hole driven into a damn, with chunks falling out ... at first the damn still holds up ... but, in time, this single erosion will worsen and have the effect of collasping the entire damn ... so, in that sense, this act alone, in my opinion, is erosive in the near-term and has the long-term effect of abolishing the 4th Amendment.
There are good cops and bad cops; it's always been that way. I'm sure it will continue, but this new ruling will not change it or make it worse.
True, but if you open the doors wide for bad cops, then eventually the bad will outnumber the good. The 4th Amendment was put there precisely because those in government tend to seize more power and abuse power ... so the extent they are kept in check, is the extent we enjoy civil rights.
Jim Whitney
samples;
If anyone is interested knowing about a license to drive, they can read Charles A. Wiseman's book, 'The Right To Travel' (Liberty or License)
The Supreme Court of Iowa, "The right to make use of an automobile as a vehicle of travel along the highways of the state, is no longer an open question. The owners thereof have the same rights in the roads and streets as the drivers of horses or those riding a bicycle or traveling in some other vehicle." House V Cramer, 112 N.W. 3; 134 Iowa 374 (1907)
"A license, therefore implying a privlege, cannot possibly exist with reference to something which is right, free and open to all, as is the right of the citizen to ride and drive over the street without charge and without toll."
Supreme Court of Illinois.
Weisman Publications
11751 W. River Hills Dr. #107D
Burnsville, Minnesota 55337
What has happened to our rights that we now have to have a license to drive a car?
Guest77
All good answers Jim. Although I don't feel as anxious over it as you, I do understand where you're coming from.
Bryan
Have You Seen My Mother
Franklin
Do you think that the forefathers of the Constitution ever envisioned a time when the freedoms of this country would be used to protect and harbor terrorists?
It was one of the founding fathers, perhaps ben franklin, who said to the effect that those who prefer security instead of freedom deserve niether. A clear view of developments since 9/11 shows that it is the govt that is destroying freedoms, not terrorists. Between govt scares and bin ladin tapes released as if on cue, a frightened nation is the result where people seem to want to give away their freedoms. Where is strength of character, the rugged individualism?
Since 9/11, nothing has happened in the way of terror on american soil, except for fearmongering by to two entities named above.
S
