What causes most JW's to lose the ability to reason? (page 2)

melmac

LOL at Gary. I never really noticed how fabricated the "Questions from Readers" are until now that I have finished reading CoC.

Who, as a JDub, would question anything, anyway?

Fear is the key!!!

Sunspot

It would be foolish to allow them to "after the fact" pick and choose which items were inspired. Either you are inspired and directed or you aren't, plain and simple.

Maybe someone who is more adept at explaining the deeper ideas of WTS theology than I am, could go into the difference between "spirit- directed" and "spirit-inspired".

I got into a discussion last fall on Beliefnet, with a staunch die-hard JW on the subject of the baptism questions. The omission of the Jesus-command of baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, bothered me. When I questioned the "spirit-directed" nonsense, I brought out that the WTS never SAYS just WHAT spirit was directing (or inspiring ) them.

ANYTHING the WTS claims.....is under this "direction" but not the "inspiration" (I think?) but in the long run...it all sounds like hooey to me! All that wiggling around and the clever use of WORDS to prove their twisted doctrine....I still have trouble with explaining!

I wish that you could have read the pages of (to me) stupid replies from a very intelligent man! But smart doesn't equal true, and I got tired of going round and round trying to get a sensible point across. It wore me out!

Anyway, it all boils down to the fact that the WTS can (and DOES) make all the claims they want to but it does not mean a thing unless they can provide ample proof of these claims.

Annie

FlyingHighNow

).....They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretation of some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah?s name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters.
If we fully apply what was said in that article then all JW's have good reason to view what the WT says as skeptical and possibly not true dont you think? They basically admit that in some cases "words do not come true" in the WT.
I wonder if the guy in the writing dept. who wrote that was demoted to the book bindery for admiting this one.

I used to think about all of this when we were studying the Red Revelation Climax book. Since they are not inspired by God, where do they get this stuff? I mean, it all just sounded ludicrous. I wondered if anyone else thought the WTBTS interpretations of Revelation and other deep prophecy sounded wacky. It was like the story of The Emperor's New Clothes. I could see the Emperor was naked. I wondered if anyone else could see it. And I resented that we couldn't freely discuss his lack of apparel with each other. It was one of those things that helped me along my way OUT of the org.

upside/down

Funny, they're not "prophesying" in the name of J, so that make it OK.

But if you disagree with their non-inspired "interpretation" you're DF'd. wtf?

u/d (of the I'm not as think as you dumb I am class)

Liberty II

As Blondie has pointed out, even people in the general population are not masters of reasoning. Orwell's book 1984 is so powerful because it illustrates just how easily people are duped by double speak & history changing in authoritarian systems. The Age Of Reason is a tiny window of hope among a vast darkness of authoritarian domination by religion & governments for thousands of years. Skeptics and reasoning logical thinkers have been persecuted for centuries as "trouble makers" and "rabal rowsers". They are discouraged from reproducing by social pressure, economic deprivation, imprisonment, maiming, and execution by the dominant culture. This leads to creating a population of sheep-like submissive people who are not predisposed to being skeptical or deep thinkers but are encouraged to breed in large numbers by the powers that be.

It is interesting that huge numbers of people in Western cultures still deny proven scientific facts or hold on to their obviously dated traditional religious beliefs even though they live in an age of modern wonders in countries where reason & logic have been allowed to flourish.

As an ex-JW I too was often fooled by their double speak and history revisions. When ever I had a skeptical thought I had to remember the consequences of "independant thinking" and "arrogance", but at some point the pain of knowing that things didn't add up outweighed the punishments available to the WT Society. I am glad that they do not have the civil authorities' backing for torture or executions like the churches in Europe did. I remember that a Watchtower publication once complained that it was regretable that the Society could not put rebellious members to death like they did in ancient Israel. Maybe someone could post the actual quote since it is a shocking admission of how the WT leadership looks upon its underlings and their lack of tolerance for differing view points.

FlyingHighNow

As Blondie has pointed out, even people in the general population are not masters of reasoning.

Further proof of this is last year's re-election of the prez here in the USA.

Sunspot

Funny, they're not "prophesying" in the name of J, so that make it OK.

I guess that must be their explanation, but how many of us KNEW that when we were active JWs? Most of us were conditioned to believe everything that was said "from the platform" or in the printed material.

Over the years I had MANY WT articles that I didn't understand, and even some of the questions were worded so badly that I couldn't figure out what they were looking for! I just thought that it was ME that was stupid, and it never once ocurred to me that it WAS nothing but foolishness and cleverly (?) worded BS.

MY problem was that I was way too trusting!

(Reminds me of something that a lot of new ones here may not have heard: "The elders treat the sheep like mushrooms------they keep them in the dark and feed them horse manure!" :o)

Annie

95stormfront

Funny, they're not "prophesying" in the name of J, so that make it OK.
But if you disagree with their non-inspired "interpretation" you're DF'd. wtf?

...and that's the bottom line right there....

BrendaCloutier

It's so much easier to be told what to wear, how to groom, what to think and believe, than to research and form opinions of your own. That takes work and the risk of being wrong.

I think the people JW's attract are those who don't want to think for themselves and need a dream to hang onto because they are incapable of coping with this life.

Another is a misguided sense of faith. Faith is one of those wonderful intangibles, like insurance.

ezekiel3

Homework for Reasoning JWS

Please balance the following expressions:

From above:
They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah?s name.

So what is the difference between "inspired" and "spirit-directed?"

*** w01 1/15 p. 16 Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed *** Theocratic appointments come from Jehovah through his Son and God?s visible earthly channel, "the faithful and discreet slave" and its Governing Body. (Matthew 24:45-47) The whole process of such recommendation and appointment is directed, or guided, by holy spirit.
*** w97 1/15 p. 22 What Does God Require of Us? *** This brings us to the fourth requirement. We must serve Jehovah with his spirit-directed organization. (Italics as published)
*** yb72 pp. 255-256 Jehovah?s Witnesses Push On *** it is very evident that Jehovah by his holy spirit has guided and directed the "faithful and discreet slave" class and has blessed its visible governing body right up to this day.

Is there another term JWs use for the FDS?

*** w03 6/1 p. 21 Stand Still and See the Salvation of Jehovah! ***Trusting in Jehovah will include trusting the modern visible channel that he has clearly been using for decades to serve his purposes. As never before, true Christians will then need to place their confidence in fellow worshipers authorized by Jehovah and his reigning King to take the lead. These faithful men will direct God?s people.
*** w02 10/15 p. 30 Should Christians Be Jealous? *** We do well to accept the fresh light shed on the Word of God through the channel that Jehovah is using today.

chan·nel 1 (chSource: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=channel
n.

The bed of a stream or river.
The deeper part of a river or harbor, especially a deep navigable passage.
A broad strait, especially one that connects two seas.
A trench, furrow, or groove.
A tubular passage for liquids; a conduit.
A course or pathway through which information is transmitted: new channels of thought; a reliable channel of information.
A route of communication or access. Often used in the plural: took her request through official channels.
In communications theory, a gesture, action, sound, written or spoken word, or visual image used in transmitting information.
Electronics. A specified frequency band for the transmission and reception of electromagnetic signals, as for television signals.
Computer Science. A site on a network, as on IRC, where online conversations are held in real time by a number of computer users.
The medium through which a spirit guide purportedly communicates with the physical world.
A rolled metal bar with a bracket-shaped section.
A temporary opening in a cell membrane that allows ions or molecules to pass into or out of the cell.

So how do we apply the counsel below?

*** w01 8/1 p. 6 Why Do You Believe What You Believe? *** Well, it is true that religious leaders who claim to follow the Bible have produced many confusing and conflicting ideas. This is because they have not, in fact, based their beliefs on the Bible.
The apostle Peter describes them as "false prophets" and "false teachers" who would create "destructive sects."

What causes most JW's to lose the ability to reason?

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