This is by far one of the worst cases of circular thinking i have ever seen.
MonkeyPrincess
What causes most JW's to lose the ability to reason?
by XBEHERE 36 Replies latest jw friends
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MonkeyPrincess
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GetBusyLiving
I don't know how those guys can sleep at night knowing the B.S they spew out. That word 'channel' has to be the most loaded expression they have ever used. I can hardly believe people still buy into their crap.
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heathen
They are so stupid with this dogma , it leaves them in a position of denile . The anointed in the first century were spirit inspired by prophesy . The gift of prophesy was to build the congregations confidence in the inpired word of God .You really can't have one without the other as far as spirit inspired and spirit directed . I have never heard them pray for the gift of accurate prophesy which is something the apostle Paul encouraged that they pray incessantly for the gift and was considered the most important gift of the spirit . I think what they are saying is they did not pray for the gift but were only giving opinions stated as fact which is dogma .They always claim not to be dogmatic but what else can you say this is? I still don't think they are" the false prophet" of revelation but are left holding the bag on some very bad leadership . They need to stop denying the facts and fess up to mistakes instead of making excuses and using twisted reasoning to cover the trail . Russel clearly did say things that add up to false prophesy and so did rutherford , by saying the world ended invisibly is not the answer and is nothing but suspension of disbelief .
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Leolaia
First of all, the Society has claimed to be a prophet anointed by God:
*** w59 1/15 p. 39 Down with the Old?Up with the New! ***
People should listen to the plain preaching by the remnant prefigured by Jeremiah, for these preach to men the present-day fulfillment of Jeremiah?s prophecies. Who made them a prophet to speak with the authority that they claim? Well, who made Jeremiah a prophet? .... He did not make himself a prophet. He could not have done so, especially since he was set apart to be a prophet before he was born. Still he could of his own accord agree to and submit to serving as a prophet when told of the vocation for which he was marked out.... Came the year 1919, and the work of witnessing to the nations in fulfillment of Jesus? words was still there to do. It faced all men who claimed to follow and obey Jesus. In that opening year for postwar decisions and work the question of highest importance to Christendom and to all who called themselves Christians was, not, Should all nations get together in a peace league? but, Who will be Jehovah?s prophet to the nations, to speak to them everything that He should command? Who will be the modern Jeremiah?....
The fact that decides the answer to the question is, not, Do all the clergy of Roman Catholicism and of Protestantism agree that Jehovah?s witnesses have been and are God?s prophet to the nations? but, Who discerned the divine will for Christians in this time of the world?s end and offered themselves to do it? Who have undertaken God?s foreordained work for this day of judgment of the nations? Who have answered the call to the work and have done it down till this year 1958? Whom has God actually used as his prophet? By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah?s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them.
*** w72 12/1 p. 728 How Much Do You Care About People? ***
Accordingly, if we as his people were to fail in declaring the "good news" and fail in aiding others to take their stand for the Kingdom so as to survive the end of this system, we would be bringing reproach on God?s name. This is because God could then be blamed for having left mankind without due warning. The position of Jehovah?s Christian witnesses today is just like that of the prophet Ezekiel in ancient times. Ezekiel was told by God: "A watchman is what I have made you to the house of Israel, and you must hear from my mouth speech and you must warn them from me."?Ezek. 3:17. Just as Ezekiel of old did not fail in performing his duties as a watchman, Jehovah?s witnesses as a body today will not fail to sound the warning.
*** w72 4/1 p. 197 ?They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them? ***
However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League was a counterfeit substitute for the real kingdom of God. He had a "prophet" to warn them. This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah?s Christian witnesses..... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?
So a prophet that makes erroneous predictions is.... a false prophet, right? The Society has indeed said that setting false dates is "false prophesying":
***g68 10/8 p. 23 A Time to 'Life Your Head' in Confident Hope***
True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them.
Of course, the Watchtower is guilty of such false prophesying. In fact, this was written at the very time 1975 was being strongly suggested as the year of the end. So to weasel out of the obvious suggestion that the Watchtower is a false prophet, the Watchtower tries to get off on a technicality -- saying that they did not claim to derive the prediction directly from Jehovah:
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g93 3/22 Why So Many False Alarms? ***Jehovah?s Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus? second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ?in the name of Jehovah.? Never did they say, ?These are the words of Jehovah.? The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah?s Witnesses, has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy." (January 1883, page 425).....They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretation of some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah?s name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters.
Why is this a lame-ass excuse? Because they have repeatedly claimed to be a divinely-appointed prophet, the modern-day Jeremiah or Ezekiel. This paragraph implies they are not prophets when in fact they have claimed the "office" of prophet. They speak on behalf of Jehovah ("Who will be Jehovah's prophet to the nations, to speak to them everything that He should command?"), they claim to be directed by him. Thus Deuteronomy 18:22 applies: "Even though a prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah, if his oracle is not fulfilled or verified, it is an oracle which the LORD did not speak. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously, and you shall have no fear of him".
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GetBusyLiving
You guys that have been out of the org for a long time must almost find it amusing to see reletive newbies like me get so pissed when reading all of this junk from the Watchtower. These guys CAN'T POSSIBLY get around this. They have dug their own graves, but they keep trying to bury the evidence.
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ezekiel3
Thanks Leolaia for the nail-gun work on that coffin.
Ever wonder why there is such a hair trigger response by JWs about the FDS? It's a weak, weak position.
Since the position is now open for hire, can I be the "modern-day Ezekiel?"
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MerryMagdalene
I just love the way the members of the FDS distance themselves from themselves and their followers(and thus from their responsibililities and guilt, I presume) by always referring to themselves as "they" rather than "we."
Their protective ivory tower is fairy tale that they must continually reinforce with their incredibly shoddy workmanship.
--Merry
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heathen
I see the flip flop for what it is . I was studying with the j-dubs in the early 90's prior to the UN NGO affiliation . They were still proclaiming to be the jeremiah class so evidently they had to play it down to be an NGO so the message became less a proclamation of discrediting other religions and started discrediting themselves . LMAO .What a bunch of jerks .
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one
If we fully apply what was said in that article then all JW's have good reason to view what the WT says as skeptical and possibly not true dont you think? They basically admit that in some cases "words do not come true" in the WT.
Regariding your topic question " What causes most JW's to lose the ability to reason?"
in the firs place, any adult who become a jw do not have such "ability to reason"
or as many other she/he did not think it was neccessary to do too much "reasoning", as
some wt doctrines were so obviously logical (such as no hot hell) that everything else had to be right, so no questions asked.
I wonder if the guy in the writing dept. who wrote that was demoted to the book bindery for admiting this one.
NO WAY, many others (powerfull) had to approve/sign the article before printing.the article. But who knows... there is always someone to blame, better if the one to blame is dead.
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DHL
By reading the posts I am reminded of an incident many years ago. I informed my JW-father, that my gut instinct told me to get out of this org immediately. You know his answer? He said: "Gut instincs are not reliable, only listen to reason!"
Seems JW don't even get that right.
What's left over???