Global flood.. holy crap what a joke. I was having wings with a baptist friend of mine and he was talking about how it was possible. He brought up some quote by some anonymous person about how it could happen. When I explained to him how stupid it was he said 'you just have to take it on faith'. Its not even worth talking about with some people.
Noah did not preach
by TheListener 17 Replies latest watchtower bible
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BluesBrother
Even if Noah had preached, and who can say that he did not? - if we accept the account as true for the sake of argument.
My trusty old Aid book says that there were 8 generations between Adam and Noah , over 1656 years . That allowed time for a considerable population to develop, enough to make a world fit to destroy.
How many people could noah and sons have preached to? only his immediate locality. (on Sundays after a week of carpentry) what about the rest? even if they heard it second hand it was hardly a thorough witness . if the account is true, then God destroyed them in their ignorance - and that does not make sense either..
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NeonMadman
I found the comments in Barnes' Notes on the New Testament regarding 2 Peter 2:5 and Hebrews 11:7 to be interesting:
Regarding the phrase "preacher of righteousness" in 2 Pet. 2:5:
A preacher of righteousness -
In Gen_6:9 , it is said of Noah that he was "a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God;" and it may be presumed that during his long life he was faithful in reproving the wickedness of his age, and warned the world of the judgment that was preparing for it.And regarding Hebrews 11:7:
He condemned the world -
That is, the wicked world around him. The meaning is, that by his confidence in God, and his preparation for the flood, he showed the wisdom of his own course and the folly of theirs. We have the same phrase now in common use where one who sets a good example is said to "condemn others." He shows the guilt and folly of their lives by the contrast between his conduct; and theirs. The wickedness of the sinner is condemned not only by preaching, and by the admonitions and threatenings of the Law of God, but by the conduct of every good man. The language of such a life is as plain a rebuke of the sinner as the most fearful denunciations of divine wrath.There is certainly nothing in any of these texts that would lead us to believe what the WTS would like us to, namely that Noah went around knocking on doors to warn people of the upcoming flood ("soon") and urge them to get into the ark with him and be saved. Rather, the implication seems to be that Noah's "preaching" was largely by example.
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Narkissos
1 Clement 7 sheds some light on the tradition behind 2 Peter:
These things, beloved, we write unto you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. For we are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. Let us look stedfastly to the blood of Christ, and see how precious that blood is to God, 34 which, having been shed for our salvation, has set the grace of repentance before the whole world. Let us turn to every age that has passed, and learn that, from generation to generation, the Lord has granted a place of repentance to all such as would be converted unto Him. Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. 35 Jonah proclaimed destruction to the Ninevites; 36 but they, repenting of their sins, propitiated God by prayer, and obtained salvation, although they were aliens [to the covenant] of God.
This is in line with Jewish tradition, especially as gathered by Josephus, as Leolaia pointed out (from the link above):
2 Peter 2:5 calls Noah "a preacher of righteousness". Of course, the Genesis narrative mentions nothing of a preaching work by Noah. The natural interpretation was that Noah would have tried to pass on his divine warning to his contemporaries, perhaps trying to get them to repent and thus be saved. Josephus (Jewish Antiquities 1:73) thus says that "Noah, displeased with the deeds of his [contemporaries] and finding their intentions to be odious, sought to persuade them to adopt a better way of thinking and to change their ways". According to rabbinical literature: "The righteous Noah used to warn them and say to them, 'Repent, for if you do not, God will bring a flood upon you.' " (b. Sanhedrin 108a).
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Neo
How did Noah do at the door?
NOAH: Good Morning. My name is Noah and I'm calling....
HOUSEHOLDER: (Interrupting) Look, man, make it quick. I'm busy eating and drinking.
NOAH: Well, I'll be brief then. I'm calling on you and your neighbours to discuss world conditions. What do you feel is the most urgent problem we face today?
HOUSEHOLDER: Well, first of all, it never rains.
NOAH: Well, yes, that's because....
HOUSEHOLDER: And second of all, we have a public eyesore in the neighbourhood.
NOAH: Oh, really, and what is that?
HOUSEHOLDER: Some religious nut on the other side of the hill is building this great big boat of some kind. True, everybody likes to tinker on the weekends but this guy is going overboard.
NOAH: Strange you should mention "overboard"....
HOUSEHOLDER: What?
NOAH: Oh nothing.
HOUSEHOLDER: Look, Mr. Noah, I admire your zeal and devotion, but I've had discussions with members of your family before, and I'm not interested. Besides, I'm busy getting ready for my daughter's wedding. You should see the guy she is marrying...WOW!...he must be 9 feet tall, if he's an inch. His name is Nephilim...Irving Nephilim. You should see the size shirt he wears. I'd be swimming in it.
NOAH: Funny you should mention swimming.
HOUSEHOLDER: What?
NOAH: Oh nothing.
HOUSEHOLDER: (continuing)...And you should see the honeymoon they're taking. Forty fun filled days and forty exciting nights on scenic Mount Ararat. It should be nice if the weather stays as it is.
NOAH: I wouldn't count on it.
HOUSEHOLDER: What?
NOAH: Oh nothing. (Noah leaves).
HOUSEHOLDER: (to wife) What a strange guy that was at the door...
WIFE: Who was that dear?
HOUSEHOLDER: I don't know, some preacher of righteousness. And he sure smelled like animals.
WIFE: Well, maybe he owns a pet shop.
HOUSEHOLDER: Could be. Are you all ready to go to the wedding?
WIFE: Yes, I'm ready. Say dear, I haven't seen you with that hat before.
HOUSEHOLDER: I know, but it sure looks like rain!
(written by a dub )
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indispair
On the subject of Noah,
My mother, still a witness, I am disfelloshipped always reminds me that the bible says the road to destruction is wide and many will be on it but few will be on the narrow and cramped road to paradise and everlasting life. In the story of Noah and the flood, only eight were on board. If you take into consideration all the witnesses that lead a double life and the fact that supposably the witnesses are the fast growing, and are very large in number than how many of them will be on the road or the "boat" as told in the bible. It scares me to think I might be laughing now and could be wrong after all only NOah and his family survived the flood.
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NeonMadman
My mother, still a witness, I am disfelloshipped always reminds me that the bible says the road to destruction is wide and many will be on it but few will be on the narrow and cramped road to paradise and everlasting life. In the story of Noah and the flood, only eight were on board. If you take into consideration all the witnesses that lead a double life and the fact that supposably the witnesses are the fast growing, and are very large in number than how many of them will be on the road or the "boat" as told in the bible. It scares me to think I might be laughing now and could be wrong after all only NOah and his family survived the flood.
If it is indeed true that only a few will be saved - if that is the inference we are to take from the story of Noah - then those few will certainly not be Jehovah's Witnesses, who are followers of a false prophet. Your comments illustrate one of their forms of mind control, that of generalizing a principle and assuming application to themselves. In other words, if they can convince you that God has always worked through an organization (which is not true), then you are expected to make the leap of logic and conclude that the one organization He works through must be their organization. Similarly with your mother's reasoning. If a case can be built that only a few will be saved, you are automatically supposed to conclude that those few will naturally be Jehovah's Witnesses. But there is no evidence leading to that conclusion; in fact, the evidence weighs toward the contrary, as any objective examination of the organization's history will abundantly show.
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Mary
the bible says the road to destruction is wide and many will be on it but few will be on the narrow and cramped road to paradise and everlasting life
You're right, that's what the scripture says, but it in no way means that there is only one true religion as the Witnesses like to preach. This scripture mentions only two roads: one that leads to destruction and one that leads to life. If the road that leads to destruction includes people of all religions and walks of life, which is what the Witnesses preach, then logically the "cramped road" would also include people of all religions and walks of life---just far fewer of them. There's absolutely nothing to indicate that the "cramped road" is referring to only one religion, because with that kind of reasoning, then the other road that leads to destruction would also only be "one religion".
Explain that to your mom who's a Witness and see what she says!