Men who lie with men..... (page 18)

Sunspot

Truthseeker,

I went to your profile (no profile) to see if you were still a JW, and saw it was your birthday today. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

## I am sorry you find my opinions offensive - but at least we are not resorting to name calling. Discussion and dialog is a good thing.

Maybe I find your voiced views offensive because I see my former views reflected and I find that uncomfortable. Because of the rigid and narrow views of the WTS on MANY matters, I was at one time operating under a lot of tremendously biased and hateful attitudes. I know---hate the sin not the sinner---but when I broke free and then realized how much damage *I* was doing to myself (and to others), I woke up!

Example: I have an in-law who is gay and we had always had a great relationship before I got into the WTS. He has always been a great guy and is generous, kind, thouhtful and very funny. Another member of the family became a JW a few years later, and was very rigid and staunch. Many in the family were subjected to his "talks" at family gatherings and would corner folks and talk "bible" with them.

It got around to snubbing this totally likable gay in the family, and how I should keep away from him etc because I would be sharing in his sins and not to let him around my kids for fear of contracting AIDS (which he has never had) and I got sucked into the whole thing and stopped having him here. For many years.

I hurt him terribly. He (and his partner) had offered to come here with a truckload of vegetables from where they worked-and I said no if his partner was going to be here. (It would be like condoning his "behavior" kinda thing) It was the last time he spoke to me. That was in the early '80's.

Maybe this is why all this talk against gays disturbs me so much. I HURT someone I loved on PURPOSE and that is NOT who I am or what I'm about.

## Jumping on the gay bandwagon is popular, and just about everyone seems to be doing it - woe for those few who dare to stand up for their beliefs regarding the Bible's standard on sexual morality!

"Jumping on the bandwagon"? Or is it education about a lifestyle that we don't understand. Maybe this is why all this talk against gays disturbs me so much. I HURT someone I loved on PURPOSE and that is NOT who I am or what I'm about.

Yes,I do get upset when I read these things that reflect these awful views against nice people who didn't CHOOSE to be who they are! It has caused so much unnecessary unkindness and prejudice in this world, and caused so much hurt, especially from "well-meaning" people such as yourself.

## While gays clamor and scream for their rights, they deny the same freedom of speech to those who do not agree with them.

Who ELSE is going to stand up for their rights? And it's not only Gays who are "clamoring and screaming" for their RIGHTS, there are many "straights" who advocate for them as well. Once again, I don't see where any freedom of speech is being denied on a national level. Every group has oddballs and wackos so I don't pay attention to them or their agenda.

## At the end of the day, we have to agree to disagree on our various viewpoints. This forum is for lively discussion, and there is no way that everyone reading material on this board will be agreeing with what they read.

This is true.

Annie

BrendaCloutier

LT, Thank you for posting the Kinsey site. I have felt for a very long time that there are degrees of "different wiring" when it comes to sexuality. I didnt' realize there was an actual scale!

Kevan and I are of similar sexual orientation... we're both somewhere between 1 and 2. Unfortunately he is a bit homophobic, and I have overcome my homophobia years ago. I could accept male homosexuality, but as with many, homosexuality within my own gender scared me. I believe in wiring from birth, and he doesn't. His parents believe it is genetic, which surprised me as they are in their late 70's.

For me to begin to accept lesbians took being involved in the family counseling when my 2nd husband was in inpatient rehab. A woman was there, one I recognized from AA, and her girlfriend was in treatment also. Her feelings of betrayal, shame, guilt, anger, frustration, etc., were the SAME as mine! something in me changed in those couple of weeks. I began to accept her as a person, not as a gay woman.

I had the privledge of thanking her a few years later at a women's AA meeting.

I don't like those who flaunt their sexuality to get a "rise" outta people. Those who wear it as a chip on their shoulder. That applies to gays and straights! It shows extreme lack of respect, awareness, acceptance, and willingness to understand. Afterall, we're all in this thing called life, together.

Peace and hugs

Brenda

scotsman

Hello boys & girls

Not posted for a while, and it's nice to see the gay debate continues. Gay cartoon characters, gay under wear, sheesh you guys really are wild. Simon ought to have a dedicated Topic called "The gay same old, same old" as the discussion never changes. That's a lie, no one this time seems to have mentioned gay rights as a stepping stone to polygamy which was one former poster's favourite.

I think the Bible's statements on homosexuality are quite clear. OT gays should die, NT gays wont inherit the kingdom. Yes, I've discussed it with gay christians and heard that other principles outweigh this, and even discussed it with the gay rabbi who appeared in the documentary Trembling Before G*d. He did some incredible linguistic ballet around that scripture in Leviticus which, while pretty, wasn't persuasive. But I don't believe in god or the bible so these scriptural edicts leave me unperturbed and free to be as gay as I like.

One final word to Brenda. That's really nice that you've come to accept the patient in rehab as a woman rather than a gay woman but I feel I have to pick you up on your criticism of those who flaunt their sexuality. On some level I agree with you (I despair at the sexualised nature of advertising) but forms of gay culture that are more "in your face" have to be seen in response to decades/centuries of oppression. It's a reaction, a bit like some feminism or black empowerment movements were, and are.

Hope you're all as warm and toasty as I am tonight, you especially Ross. I'm off to ride my gay bandwagon, it's in the bedroom...

Valis

oi! Hiya scotsman! Hope all is well for you and stay warm! Tis warming up here down in Texas and the sun is shinin...Take care and cheers!

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

whyamihere

I made out with a girl before! Is that wrong? I liked it...weird and I love boys too!

Brooke

LittleToe

Scotsman:
I was just thinking of you last week, thinking I must call, as I'm potentially down your neck of the woods at the start of April. I'll give you a call as soon as I'm certain

I see you are your usual erudite self

Rabbit

Geezzzz...was is sumpin' I said, doc ?

Were my questions too direct...again ? What happened to the answers...I so wanted to learn?

Oh, well. Silence screams volumes sometimes.

Rabbit

Gretchen956

Wascully wabbit! I think that their answer speaks volumes!

Sherry

Rabbit

Yep, me too...Sweetheart. (in my best Bogey voice)

Rabbit

aniron

As has already been stated above the teachings on homosexuality in the Bible are clearly stated.

In the OT it was clear that if caught homosexuals were put to death. In the NT homosexuals are free to become Christians but they have to give up that lifestyle. If they didn't they would not inherit the Kingdom. Notice the decision whether or not they inherit the Kingdom is left up to the King not others. If a homosexual becomes a Christian and continues practising the lifestyle, then they have to take the chance on how Christ is going to judge them when the time comes. The NT clearly states that Homosexuals, murderers, adulterers, theives will not in herit the Kingdom. If homosexuals are somehow exempt from that scripture then we must also include murderers, adulterers and thieves as being exempt. Yet we know that murderers, adulterers, thieves WILL enter the Kingdom, but they have by then given in those practises and ask Christ into their lives and changed. We would expect such ones to have given up such practises, would we be happy if in our church we knew there was a person who went round murdering people, or one who continually stole from us, or was having affairs with our wives/husbands. So why should homosexual be exempt.

As the Christian faith teaches that to be a practising homosexual is wrong. Then its up to the homosexual to decided whether or not to become a Christian and give up that life style.

If the Christian faith was like some kind of club, society or union, which had rules for its members. Before joinig would you not check its rules out. To use a simple illustration, if you joined a golf club and ones of the rules was "no brown trousers allowed" or you will be thrown out the club. If you persistently turned up in brown trousers don't you thinnk that the club has the right to say that you are no longer a member.

Christ asks that when you follow Him you will have to give up certain things and change your life, thats the whole point of becoming a Christian. Your life changes, changes that will allow you to enter the Kingdom.

Men who lie with men.....

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