Questions for those who know...

newholland

Went to JW "memorial talk" for a friend. I'm not gonna give too many details, because I don't want to lose connection I have with our friends. I have done a little research on JWs, and now I am confused. The elder who gave the talk closed in prayer saying something to the effect of "in the name of Jesus Christ the Son of God". I thought JWs believed Jesus was a man or angel who became a man and that they did not believe He was the son of God. ... Also, he said the 144,000 would be the governing force over the rest of those here in Paradise on Earth. I thought 144,000 was the entire amount and no more. I really wanted to flip through my friend's Bible and see how it compared to my NIV Bible but that would have been very obvious. Any insights would be appreciated. I felt like this elder was saying what he did to make us "others" feel comfortable and that it was a lie. ?? I was listening very carefully, so I know I did not misunderstand. When we left my friend that I went with stated the same thing. What's up??

stopthepain

NH,hello and welcome.

JW believe that Jesus is gods son.Not equal to god,but his first of all creation,and his son.The 144,000 are chosen from men and women on earth,to serve in heaven with Jesus after Armegeddon.I think thats the basic explanation.STP

hillbilly

Welcome and sorry for the loss of your freind,

JW's feel that God's first creation was a spirit (angel) who later came to earth as Jesus.

JW's teaching includes a "Father"( God) , "Son" (Jesus Christ) and "Holy Spirit"......... they keep the entites seperated and are Non Trinitarian. That's the doctrine in a nutshell.

In practice they dont worry much about the Grace of our Lord or the ransom he gave for our sins...... they do put a lot of stock in working for the promotion of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

Others here will add a lot more!

~Hill

gumby

Hi Newholland.....and welcome.

Wow, you waited almost a year to ask this question since you last attended the memorial.

JW's believe Jesus is the only begotten son of god. In other words, they believe Jesus is the only creation god made himself and all other creation was done through Jesus by god. Yes, they believe Jesus is gods son.

As for the 144,000.......these are a special group who will live in heaven with Jesus and act as a government over those who will live forever on the earth. Both groups are composed of only Jehovahs Witnesses.

Gumby

newholland

All: Thanks for the answers. So far, everyone is saying the same thing.

Gumby: I just went to the memorial talk yesterday.

Sooo, do they believe he was born of the Virgin Mary? I agree, that although I think the trinity the truth, It's hard to wrap your brain around. It's a faith thing. I try not to be too judgmental about others beliefs, but they seem way off on alot of beliefs. They never graced the doors of a church until maybe 3-4 yrs. ago. Then everything was hush-hush, although we new something was up. There one child, just left and this child is still in school, living with some else. I think going from holidays, but no church to "this is the way it is" and you will go and there will be no more birthdays, etc. has effected their children in different ways. One is depressed and doing the JW thing, the other got the heck away from it. Child who left was there yesterday and seemed better than I'd seen in a long time.... This seems to be a paradoxial type of cult almost. I don't want to offend anyone....

Oh, one more thing, is the JW Bible different? and how so? Do they read it on their own, or only what they are told to read by an elder?

gumby

Sorry bout that....I first thought you meant the memorial of christ death.

Yes they believe in the Virgin Mary.

I wouldn't worry too much about their doctrinal beliefs as I would their belief in who is eligible for salvation. They believe ALL other beliefs are of Satan and that THEY ALONE have the truth. Jesus will soon destroy all not a part of their group and who refuse to believe as they do. You cannot believe as you wish once you join them as you must submit to their theology because god directs this group and he is against all others. Cults are like that.

Gumby

Justin

Was it the annual memorial of Christ's death, or was it a memorial talk for a friend who died? The impression I get is that you attended the former to make a friend happy, not that the friend had died. If this is the case, the reason the 144,000 were emphasized is because only those who believe they belong to this class may partake of the bread and wine. They do not want even the majority of JWs to partake, let alone someone attending for the first time. This is what may have given you the impression that the elder was making others feel uncomfortable, but you must realize that most (if not all) JWs in the hall are "others" compared to this special class.

newholland

Justin: I guess I should clarify. We were told it was a "memorial talk" for a close friend of our's father who passed away. They are JW and the father was an elder. I was not aware that there was a memorial where communion took place. Oops, my son just stopped by.... I'll check back in later. I have lots of questions....

jgnat

Newholland, it is a Christian urban legend that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in Jesus. These myths make it hard to be an effective witness to a Witness. The differences between a JW and a regular Christian are varied and subtle. You need to dig deep to find out what they are and what they believe.

Others have already explained the stance on Jesus, and how his sacrifice is diminished (you have to keep working at your own salvation). Yes, heaven is cut off for most JW's, but they have appropriated the "new earth" as prophesied in Revelations for themselves. It is a JW urban legend that regular Christians don't believe in this new paradise earth.

Here are some other JW myths:

Myth: JW's study the bible more than any other Christian. Reality: JW's study more Watchtower materials than any other Christian. Every week a half dozen paragraphs from a book published by the Watchtower Society is studied. Questions are arranged below the text, and the answers may be underlined in the corresponding paragraphs. Every week a Watchtower Magazine article (about 20 paragraphs) is read. Questions are arranged below the text, and the answers may be underlined in the corresponding paragraphs. Bible verses are snippets, often quoted out of context. The bible takes a firm second place to the watchtower materials.

Myth: JW's are the only Christians undertaking the preaching work. Reality: To maintain their salvation, every baptized witness must put in between two and ten hours a month of door-to-door work. Many chose to include travel time and doughnut breaks when recording their time. "Cold-calls", or door-to-door work is markedly inefficient, and requires hundreds of hours of commitment for a single convert. Informal witnessing and missionary work, newholland, which you are probably more familiar with, has a much higher success ratio.

Myth: JW's are markedly different from regular Christians because they keep their congregations clean from sin, regularly disfellowshipping wrongdoers. Reality: JW's are much more concerned about appearances. Therefore, anybody who embarrasses the society in any way, including abuse victims who squawk too loudly, get expelled. Those with some status in the society have found the loophole. Conduct the sin, behave repentantly, and get reinstated in six months.

If you want to be a positive influence in the lives of these JW's, I suggest that you DO NOT engage in any long theological debates. All this does is trigger their well-rehearsed rebuttal arguments. You will find they talk more like robots than real people when you discuss these things. Rather, be genuinely friendly. Invite the children out to clean, non-threatening social events like bowling. You may gently ask leading questions on occassion, but if they become defensive, back off again. Your goal, I think, is to prove by example that you are not a Heathen Christian, but a god-directed, kind, and trustworthy person. The secondary goal is to encourage them to think for themselves.

NewLight2

Welcome to JWD, newholland

Official WT doctrine states that Jesus is the mediator for only the 144,000. All others (the other sheep - earthly class) must go through these 'annointed ones' to recieve salvation. In practice, the Watchtower society has placed itself in this mediatorship role. Anyone who comes to 'Jehovah' must come to him THROUGH "Jehovah's Organization".

The average JW will be unaware of this official teaching. They are really surprised to learn that Jesus is not THEIR mediator. However, the average JW does believe that there is no salvation outside of "Jehovah's (earthly) Organization". That is why leaving the Watchtower Society is said to be equal to "leaving Jehovah". The JW's believe that all people outside of the 'ark' (The Watchtower Society) will be destroyed at armagadden by Jehovah and that only JW's will escape being killed.

You might want to check out these web pages:

Jehovah's Witnesses: A Critical Analysis

A Bible Study Outline

These two contain many links to important information regarding the Watchtower Society.

NewLight2's Links Page

Johannes Greber's Home Page

Here is one that deals with Mind Control and Cults:
Mind Control - The BITE Model

NewLight2

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