by alex 32 Replies latest jw friends
Alex
wasn't there a deal where when the BoM was being translated chapter by chapter someone took one of the chapters and didn't give it back.. Later Joseph Smith was unable to reproduce the chapter (this was what the person who took it wanted to demonstrate) and it was paraphrased in the final BoM.
Also I heard that there were sections in the BoM that were taken verbatim from the KJV, including mistranslations or mistakes in the KJV..
any truth to these?
Julien
Hi I'm an exjw of many years. I have recently been in discussions with a Mormon lady from Utah, who's been trying to help me to know her God. In the end she asked me to meditate quietly for an hour each day and try to tune into God in order to get a response from him. She's been pretty careful to avoid commenting on Satan or other weird stuff (I spose there is plenty of time for that later) - but I was interested that she thinks I'll get divine inspiration by meditating and praying. I told her I couldn't do it as it represented surrender - and relinguishing control of my mind. I don't really know what happens when you do this, but I presume self delusion sets in and you start imagining all kinds of stuff.
I'm really interested to hear about the Mormons and what they believe. For some reason I always thought they were more harmless than JWs. Maybe not?
Marilyn
Hi Alex, I just saw your post and I wanted to point out that here in Arizona a LDS politician (State Rep. Jeff Flake) has been raising eybrows over proposing a law that would do away with standardized jail sentences in Arizona. His statements run parallel to his calling for the release of a 78 year-old child molester (Daniel F. Walsh) who was a friend in his LDS church. Many have called his defense sincere, misguided, and wrong. By speaking out against standardized jail sentances and by asking a judge to keep the molester out of prison Flake has garnered just enough bad publicity to put a dark cloud over the rest of his career. His actions are an insult to our system of justice.
BTW, Alex, you mentioned in your list of topics of concern to discuss with Mormon missionaries that MMM would be a good topic. Is this a refernce to the Mountain Medows Massacre? Id this really a topic that many Mormons know about. I've known about it for a long time.
This board of yours has an evil flaw. I answered all your questions with a very long response, lots of good quotes, etc. Then I hit "Reply to Topic" and your Jehovah God screwed everything up. I got some message that my password was bad and the message was sent to the Armaggedon of cyberspace and destroyed.
Actually I'd highly recommend the site www.lds-mormon.com for a critical view on Mormonism or www.mormons.org for an apologist view. The LDS church scriptures are also available online at scriptures.lds.org so that any of you can check out the various references that come up. Its suffice to say that the foundation of Mormonism rests on whether or not the Book of Mormon really is a record of the dealings of God with the ancestors of the American Indians and whether these Indians really are Israelite descendants. Any other issue just doesn't have that same impact on making/breaking the case on Mormonism.
alex,
I recommend you ctrl'a'+ctrl'c' prior to posting. Are you following the higher hierarchy thread?
philo
Hello Alex,
I am from a town in Northern California with a large Mormon population; the town’s population is about 5K and we have two large Mormon Temples. While I think the Mormon’s do have some similarities to the Witnesses in Organizational structure, really that’s where the similarities end.
For example:
Before I became a JW, I had dated several different Mormon girls, with their parent’s approval; a JW parent would never let that happen.
Mormons go to college. If any criticism can be made here it is that the Mormon religion is focused on personal achievement and money too much.
Most Mormons are normal people that you could have a conversation with that doesn’t revolve around religion.
Mormons are different. A Mormon from Utah tends to be much more strict than one from California and Texas. Witlesses have such a strong social pressure placed on them to conform that witness are the same all over.
I lived with a Mormon girl that had moved out of her parent’s home at 18 years of age. Her church elders called her in to chat with her and she told them that she no longer wanted to be a Mormon; she was actually rude to them. The Mormons were still very polite to her and did not shun her in any way; this is a complete opposite of what the JW clergy and congregation would have done.
So in conclusion, Mormons have some similarities to Witnesses; Mormons however do not attempt to control every aspect of their congregation’s life, from association to education. In my view Mormons are just a strict and somewhat irritating religion but it does not achieve the cult status that the WTBS has earned.
P.S. I realize however that there are differences between Utah Mormons and California Mormons. It is quite possible that Utah Mormons might approach a cult like organization, however since my only experience is with California Mormons I can only comment on their behavior.
Jelly (Used to be smooth with the mormon girls class)
Hi, Alex,
We've chatted a few times in Q and A, so I know your story and I was wondering how long it would be before you started posting here. Welcome!
Yes, you have a hard row to hoe since you've made up your own mind about the Church, want to leave, but have all those good LDS relatives you don't want to alienate yourself from, including your wife. Tough decisions are ahead of you. While we don't shun as the JWs do, there is no doubt how hurt your family will be if you pursue your present course. They will never stop loving you, but they also will never stop trying to pursuade you to return. I wonder and have asked this before...To whom have you gone with your doubts, to hear the other side (the Church's side) explained again in ways that now might make more sense to you?
It just slays me that you put so much emphasis on the DNA evidence. Please find the National Geographic that I have seen others suggest you read...the one with the world map of DNA tracking which showed one group of American Indians to have the exact DNA the BOM would require them to have. The National Geographic itself put a tiny comment under that one group that you would find most interesting. I don't remember the exact month, but it was within the past 6 months, and I may still have that issue and can be more specific later. At any rate, to put such an emphasis on one point of doctrine has the effect of making it a "gospel hobby" which tends to distort other, equally or even more important points of doctrine. Moderation in all things, Brother.
I appreciate your simple clarification of the Temple question. Amazing how many people (outsiders) want to turn the Temple experience into something perverted and sexual -- WHICH IT IS NOT!!!! It has always amazed me how some people can take the words "sacred ordinance" and somehow make it seem like it just must secretly mean "sexual activity". I guess that shows the condition of their own minds that they insist on thinking such thoughts, because it sure isn't a part of our Temple ceremonies!
I don't appreciate, however, your instructions to destroy the faith of the young missionaries. If people don't care to join, fine. Let them say so. Let the Elders move on and find those who are truly seeking and interested. But it is wrong to intentionally set out to destroy the faith of another person, no matter what their religion is. That is wrong. If they ask about your faith, tell them. But don't tear down their religion. That is between them and God. Your experiences are your own. Let them find their own way.
You said you were called to Bishopric and now Stake Presidency? Opportunities abound for you to discuss your concerns with those who are in position to know and are spiritually in tune enough to help you find your way, whatever that may be. It sure can't be easy living a double life. Good luck to you in your journey.
Susan
Susan,
Perhaps I am not the only one wondering what a fully fledged Mormon is doing with 111 posts on a discussion board used mainly by apostate Jehovahs Witnesses. Are you hoping to get leads for converts or are you just lurking on behalf of others?
I thought that JWs were bad enough but you have dished out enough emotional blackmail to Alex to give him a lifetimes guilt complex.
In that respect at least, you Mormons are not a lot different to the JWs are you?.
link
SIMILARITIES?
Joseph smith was 15 when God first impelled him
Charlie Russell was 18
Both of the idiots believed that the true message was lost shortly after the apostles died....that God HID the message untill the late 18th cetury when God decided it was DUE TIME to get the message out.....the TRUE MESSAGE.
If anyone is dumb enough to believe this shit.....more power to them. I was dumb enough. I believed it for 41 years. Now it all seems so simple...that being....it's all a bunch of horseshit.
I hope this helps.
