Holocaust denier deported (page 2)

jeanniebeanz

Interesting. Thanks for posting that, I didn't see it in the news or on the net.

J

talesin

That's very dangerous thinking right there. Who determines what is hate speach?

Actually, the lawmakers of your country do, as they do in mine. As I said, there are laws against hate crimes here.

My personal feelings are what they are. In my home, you do not have the right to use certain expressions (see above). You will be told to leave if you insist on disrespecting and/or degrading others.

In my country, you are not allowed to promote hate via words. The courts decide which words are considered hate crimes. If you don't want to respect the rules, then you go to jail (like Zundel). If Germany wants to extradite you for hate crimes, Canada is not gonna let you hide behind 'freedom of speech'. That's my opinion in response to the question posed by originator of the thread.

funkyderek

As I said, there are laws against hate crimes here.

As opposed to what? Love crimes? In your country, will my punishment be more severe if I murder a black man than if I murder a white man?

Am I allowed to say that all paedophiles should be strung up by the balls?

Am I allowed to say that all homosexuals should be strung up by the balls?

Am I allowed to deny the Catholic Inquisition?

Am I allowed to claim that Jews are cursed because they killed the Messiah?

Am I allowed to say that I believe Kennedy wasn't shot by Lee Harvey Oswald?

Am I allowed to say that I believe fewer than six million Jews died in the Holocaust?

Abaddon

Quite frankly I find it very hard to be tolerant towards Nazi apologists. Those who go beyond the spineless vacilations of the aplogists (who merely mouth the word of the neo-nazis and revisonists but will agree half-heartedly that the 3rd Reich was an abomination) are even more worthy of contempt.

We are not talking about their freedom of speech. We are talking about their freedom of lying; and their lies are used to consruct a political agenda. Peaceful expression of their opinions is impossible as their opinions deny provable violence and death took place and if their ideology was followed violence would result. Their very ideology is one of hate.

That poltical agenda is built on the denied death of millions and would result in the death of millions if followed to its logical conclusion.

There's plenty of groups using lies in their agendas; Creationists for example (note big C, I mean YEC's mostly) are terrible liars as many of their web sites prove. But their lies are designed to support ultra-traditon orthodoxies for the most part, and are not built on the deaths of millions.

Of course, almost all politicians use lies to construct a political agenda, most of us poor saps have voted for one or the other.

But most of us haven't voted for a poiltical agenda that basically ends up defining a large proportion of humanity as worthless scum.

As their ideology does this without compunction, I feel little sympathy for nazi-boot-lickers whining about their freedom of speech and their rights. Given the opportunity few would afford such rights and freedoms to others so they can shut their hypocritical mouths.

He was removed from a country he had no citizenship of after serving time for spreading lies. Now he's back in Germany, where they really take a dim view of holocaust denial as they freaking well KNOW if happened. Oh, poor him.

One less neo-nazi supporting website, 100 less ignorant morons who end up believing 6,000,000 people didn't die

Satans little helper

I completely agree with you Abaddon; freedom of speech is one thing, freedom of indoctrination to incite the dehumanisation of a vaste swathe of the world's population is not open for negotiation

Kenneson

There is currently going on in Davis, California a case where two teens will be charged with hate crimes: including spray painting graffiti containing racial and religious slurs on buildings. Apparently it does matter how one expresses what one believes.

I found interesting this comment by Pattie Fong of Davis Asians fo Racial Equality: "These are message crimes. It has the effect of making people uncomfortable in their homes, in their schools and in their churches."

http://www.davisenterprise.com/articles/2005/03/03/news/303new0.txt

Xena

While I find hate speech repulsive personally, part of me feels that by supressing it you just push it underground where it is harder to moniter and counter.

Mary

It's one thing to question something---we have the right to do that. However, the Holocaust deniers have a different agenda: to (once again) promote hatred of the Jews. If someone from the Ku Klux Klan openly stated that there's no evidence that black slaves in the Old South were really treated that badly, what would we think? The owners certainly didn't record by pen every time they whipped a slave, raped a slave-woman, or killed a slave, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, because we know full well that it did.

I for one, am sick of these Nazi-sympathizers continuously trying to deny that 6,000,000 Jews died during this horrific event. Census taken in Europe before and after WWII shows that millions of Jews apparently just vanished off the face of the earth without a trace. Where'd they all go to? Were they beamed up? They certainly didn't all immigrate to America, because neither the States or Canada wanted the Jews here either during that time period. See the book: None is too many: Canada and the Jews of Europe, 1933-1948 by Irving Abella.

talesin

Hey, VOR! :) Yes, you have pretty much captured my sentiments as well on the Zundel issue.

Mary, aren`t you just sick of him being associated with Canada - blecch! Although, it is good for us to be reminded that we turned away 10s of thousands of Jews seeking refuge as well. You are so right on that point.

I agree with those of you who find the issue of freedom of speech and any restrictions thereof a scary one. It truly could be a slippery slope, and it`s important for us to be debating this as a community.

One thought I had ... and in my own words

The law seems to make a difference between what I would call hateful speech and speech that is intended to incite others towards hatred and or violence.

It seems to me that this is where the fine balancing comes into play. Here is where the courts decide where to draw the line. Do I know where that line is - well, for myself and in my own home, yes. That`s fairly easy, cause if you don`t like suppressing racist, mysoginistic, homophobic, etc., comments, then just don`t come to my home. :)

As far as the laws go, I must rely on the courts to decide, and express my support or displeasure at their decisions to my elected officials. At the same time, I feel it`s important to continue to share exchanges with others of like and opposing viewpoints, keeping an open mind to the fact that what is right for me is not necessarily right for you. And that is okay with moi.

talesin

Xena

You are looking good, gal!

Holocaust denier deported

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