by bonnzo 25 Replies latest watchtower bible
If the "helper" Jesus spoke of is the holy spirit, why do we need a FDS?
Remember, this is Jehovah's "Spirit Directed Organization?" we're talking about. This "Spirit Directed Organization?" has replaced Holy Spirit in the second baptizmal question since 1985. Perhaps there was a hostile takeover or something, and the FDS has assumed the role of Holy Spirit. That is why they can say that elders? are appointed by "Holy Spirit", even those that were unrepentent child molesters in the past.
Walter
Steve, no prob its hard to keep up with all their interjected reasoning. It just further shows the fallicy of their reasoning and how it is riddled with problems. Human reasoning is proven as foolishness with the passing of time and this is evident as time passes for the watchtower. Their two class distinction becomes harder and harder to uphold as time progresses, just as we have seen with the nethinim class that they have recently introduced. So now they have essentially created 3 classes, none of which I can see have any scriptural backing. Its kinda like the lie that has to get bigger and bigger to hold up the first lie. They have blockaded Christs extension of grace toword mankind and selfishly applied it only to themselves, leaving the scraps which fall off the table for the dogs.
The JW's basically think that they are somehow included in this covenent but I dont think they fully realize that their hope lies not in Jesus covenent but rather in a human organization. We are warned not to rely on human reasoning as it will cause one to become disheartened. This we see great evidence of as more and more ex Jw's express greef and loss for having put hopes in such human reasoning. The FDS wants everyone to believe in the back of their minds that they are nessesary for salvation instead of salvation coming directly through Christ. They just havnt been totally blunt and open about it as they prefer the members to somehow feel as though they are involved when they actually teach to the contrary. For many years such ones were not even considered JW's but as some obscure class of foreign residents residing among them which could gain their salvation through the organization. They so often like to parallel themselves with ancient israel but neglect to show that such an arrangement no longer has any application or existence in our day.
Its sad and a hard realization to accept when you discover that after all thoese years of being a witness you were only a secondary member, one who could never enjoy a personal relationship with God. To try and follow a bible that they state wasnt directed toword you or to acknowledge and live up to a covenent that you are told you are not part of and cannot partake of is too hard for me to stomach. If our only hope for salvation is stripped from us what hope do we have?
Ticker
replaced Holy Spirit in the second baptizmal question since 1985. Perhaps there was a hostile takeover or something, and the FDS has assumed the role of Holy Spirit. That is why they can say that elders? are appointed by "Holy Spirit",
It was more than a hostile takeover...you think about the corporate raiders of the 80's....they all now work for the WTS, not a lot of people know that.....lol
Was joking but I have a great visualisation of Gordon Gekko with his slick back hair, his chair and surrounded by his Routers bloombergborgs sat in brooklyn bethel.
Greed is good and all that.
Yes the parable has been lifted from context and used to justify the hierchal structure of the religion. They rarely ever use Luke 12 and this is for a reason. Matt has the parable and discussison occur in an 'prophetic' eschatological setting whereas Luke has no such context. The two authors having drawn from 'sayings' attributed to Jesus and working them into a narrative as they saw fit. Anyway Luke's wording is very clear that the 'slave' in the parable is the same individual facing choices, to be patient and vigilent or grow fatigued and oppressive. The choice resulting in blessing or punishment. There is no individual or individual "class" being prophesied about. It is a parable like many others that used a little story to teach a moral.
Great discussion. P.Pete, when you mentioned Luke 12 it reminded me that my JW relative quoted part of it to me, this is it:
It was disturbing to me; I'd never read this particular scripture before and was at first confused as to why Jesus would say he didn't come to bring peace...when all Christians think of Jesus as representing Peace first and foremost.
Do JW's quote this scripture often?
If you keep asking questions like that, you won't be a JW for much longer
So true! And haven't you noticed they add the word "class" to it so they can say it's the "anointed." We know what the Bible says about adding or taking from God's word. [Revelation 22:19 and Proverbs 30:6] If you are still going to the Kingdom hall in April when they start studing the book of Daniel, I don't remember what page now but when they give Daniel's interpertation of King Neb.notice Daniel says the tree represents King Neb. and HIS ruler ship is to the extremity of the earth.but the organization says"rulership to the extremity of the earth represents Jehovah's rulership.They contridict the Bible. Daniel says seven times would pass over King Neb. rulership and about five pages later they say the seven times represents God's rulership.No where in Daniel chapter four does it say anything about the tree representing God's rulership.They twist the scriptures but I can say one thing for them, they are fullfilling the scriptures. There is a scripture that says "They twist the scriptures and do so to their own destruction." Forgot where it is but you can find it.So many of the Elders cover up for the organization but there are still so many sincere people in that cult.I just wish we could do more to help them but it doesn't seem like you can. They put too much fear in them about loosing that" Paridse Earth."
If you keep asking questions like that, you won't be a JW for much longer. KwinSo that's how I got labeled an apostate.... too many questions like that. No wonder my family and friends shun me and the Governing Body told me I'm gonna be destroyed, by God; at Armageddon.
Hi bonnzo and welcome to JWD!
Here is a very long thread that might interest you:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/84617/1.ashx
"a friend in need" (AFIN) is a JW and refused to answer OldSoul's question about the FDS so "shadow" who is an elder. picked up the discussion and concluded that the FDS doctrine could NOT be supported by Scripture alone. You may enjoy reading the entire thread.
You might want to check out these web pages:
Jehovah's Witnesses: A Critical Analysis
A Bible Study Outline
These two contain many links to important information regarding the Watchtower Society.
NewLight2's Links Page
Johannes Greber's Home Page
Here is one that deals with Mind Control and Cults
Mind Control - The BITE Model
NewLight2
Auntiejane:
Luke 12 it reminded me that my JW relative quoted part of it to me, this is it:- Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52
- From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; 53
- a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."
This is the scripture my daugter used to show me that it's only natural for her to shun me.
Bryan
Have You Seen My Mother
Makes me Gag.
