There are those who are so musically astute, that they defy the normal comprehension of musicianship. I've sat back and taken weeks to learn a particular tune on the bass, and come away astounded as to the mathematical genius that someone has interpeted onto the fretboard. Those who so intricately understand how to fluently and rhythmically structure a piece of music, in near perfect balance, how best to place the notes, 8th notes, 16 th notes, 32nd notes, etc, etc, etc,. Makes me silly with chills down the spine when I play along with them on the stereo. One Bassist who comes to mind, Anthony Jackson, a studio musician and freelance artist who many an R&B producer has made certain that he was on their recordings, is just that type of a musician. One so fluent and knowledgeable as to his instrument that he's given free reign to orchestrate his own interpretations as to what's to be played . Quincy Jones, Chaka Khan, Patti Austin as well as a host of others have made it a point to have him perform on their projects. Though the average person really couldn't tell by listening to his work, the wonder that is his musicianship, those who are musicians recognize the incredible complexity that's gone into even the most simple sounding of notations. Yes, there are good musicians, and then there are the great ones.
What is good and what is bad music?
by hillary_step 113 Replies latest social entertainment
-
-
hillbilly
Slim Whitman is a God
'nuff said
~Hill
-
FlyingHighNow
So that's what God looks like. Wow.
-
hillary_step
Prophecor, Onacruse and Still,
I throughly enjoyed reading your posts, thank you.
Stillajwexelder,
It is all down to taste - I personally struggle with rap - but that is just me
Might I ask then, are you saying that there is no such thing as 'bad' music. If so, on what do you base that opinion? Best regards - HS -
sixsixsixtynine
(OK, I know this is an ancient thread, but when I saw it I had to reply. )
Talesin,
If I'm reading you right, HS, even though bad music may be considered good art by some (ie, it moves people and they enjoy hearing it), technically it's still poorly written/performed/arranged (or whatever), and is, therefore, still intrinsically "bad music".
Yes, you have summed up ny own and imho Ellingtons viewpoint perfectly.
Most folks only listen to music, they neither compose nor study it. They are left to judge the music by its artistic value only
That is true, but can a person who cannot speak a particular foreign language claim to understand its nuances just because they catch and understand the occasional word? I suggest that most people do not know what is good and what is bad music because they cannot speak the language of music, and if they did they would quickly discard what they have accepted as good music and move on to 'better' things.
Minimus,
I remember when rap first came out, a music teacher snootily told me that she would not allow any rappin' in her class because it "wasn't music".
Might it be that your snooty music teacher, who is trained in her subject, knows better than you who are not? As it is, I agree with her. Rap is not music in any conventional sense of the word, and will only survive as long as young people are its audience and fashion its master. It is the artistic equivalent of paint-by-numbers, with a switchblade and two gold teeth thrown in.
Best regards - HS
even though bad music may be considered good art by some (ie, it moves people and they enjoy hearing it), technically it's still poorly written/performed/arranged (or whatever), and is, therefore, still intrinsically "bad music".
Many musicians have used the "two kinds of music" analogy, and it's very doubtful that this is what Ellington meant by his statement.
"Good" music has something original to say, takes risks, is rooted in the past while still looking forward, and most importantly is honest.
"Bad" music is unoriginal, derivative, pandering, lazy, and dishonest.
IMO this is what most musicians mean when they say "They're are two kinds of music...". In my experiences, I've found that any musician who feels "good" music is based on technical proficiency and complexity, will always make music that is completely uninteresting to me.
I suggest that most people do not know what is good and what is bad music because they cannot speak the language of music, and if they did they would quickly discard what they have accepted as good music and move on to 'better' things.
Musicians who make music only for those who "speak the language"(i.e. other musicians) are completely missing the boat. Music is communication, why would you purposely limit your audience in that way? Really good music has many layers to it, that can be appreciated by people of varying degrees of musical knowledge.
I've found that the more I learn about music, the more I can enjoy complex music that I might not have "got" before. But I've also found that my respect for "simple" and "crude" music increases as well. The fewer "brush strokes" an artist can use, and still convey their message, definitely factors into my definition of "good" music.
Might it be that your snooty music teacher, who is trained in her subject, knows better than you who are not?
That's ridiculous. Do you really think someone needs "training" to determine what is good or bad music. Or what is or isn't music?
Historians rarely make good musicians(e.g. Wynton Marsalis ).
-
minimus
Personally, I don't like most rap. I like some tunes, especiallt the earlier stuff but good or bad music is always in the ear of the listener. When R&R first came out, it was the "Devil's music"----certainly not "good music".
-
upside/down
What is "good" music?
It's the same as, What's "good" wine?
The one YOU like...
u/d (of the loves wine & music class)
-
hillary_step
six..etc..etc,
That's ridiculous. Do you really think someone needs "training" to determine what is good or bad music. Or what is or isn't music?
Of course they do, unless of course you live by the principle uttered by numerous people in art galleries, "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like" or, looking at a Jackson Pollack painting, 'Bleeding 'eck, my firteen year ole kid can do better than that'....lol. Think about what you are implying.
When I first started playing I put down some tracks with a well known band. I played rhythm guitar, and we thought what we put down was 'good music', in fact so did thousands of other people with equally untrained ears. When I played what was recorded to my guitar teacher, he exploded with laughter, much to my chagrin. All these years later as I listen to what we played against the backdrop of years of training, I realize what a pile of crap it really was and just why my teacher with a trained ear was so amused.
Another example. Lary Coryell, one of my guitar heroes, who once gave me a few lessons too, hit the Jazz guitar scene in the late sixties with an extraordinary untrained guitar technique. In the 80's he went back to music school and learned the basics of music, which he had never done. He was humble enough to admit that compared with what he could achieve with musical training, what he did in the past faded into insignificance. How do his fans measure what is of better quality in his music, what sounds good to their ears, or what has been achieved with greater training. Coryell, it seems,certainly does not feel my statement to be 'ridiculous'.
You describe as 'ridiculous' my statement that someone needs training to distinguish what is good and what is bad music. I feel it is ridiculous to suppose otherwise. What is enjoyed as good music by the untrained ear, is not neccessarily viewed as good music by the trained ear.
I am offline for a couple of weeks, but will return to this thread if it is still active.
Best regards - HS
-
hillary_step
U/D,
It's the same as, What's "good" wine? The one YOU like...
No, that is *your* definition of a good wine. It may be a disgusting wine, made from the poorest grapes of a vineyards harvest, but it becomes good because a person thinks it to be so? A trained professional wine-maker would have far more knowledge of what constitutes a good wine, than an amateur, and that is my point as noted above. It is the very same with music. Personal preference can never be a measure of what is good, and what is bad music.
HS
-
stillajwexelder
Do you? How do you identify what is good and what is bad music?
Wow not an easy question at all. Last year I was at a famous jazz hall (name escapes me - something like Temperance Hall) just off Bourbon Street in New Orleans. A supplier of our invited me and I had just had a Hurricane - Rum and something and dinner was a pourboy sandwich with oysters on. The hall was hot, humid, stuffy and packed - wow the atmosphere was indescribable and words still fail me - now that was good music.
On another occasion I was in Colne East Lancashire UK and I heard Steeleye Span (Electric Folk) and again all I can say is wow. Then my daughter about 3 weeks ago put some headbanging rap on and that was in my opinion not even fit to call music
But then again all I am doing is letting personal taste interfere