Keep doing this in rememberance of me - How often???

by catchthis 14 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  catchthis

  We all know that the memorial is the single most important day in the jw year. But why does it HAVE to be observed on one specific day, nisan 14, and at one specific time, at sundown? Did Jesus ever make a statement saying that these two requirements had to be kept no matter what? Or did he simply say to "keep doing this in rememberance of me?" To me, this statement leaves open any timeframe as to when you could observe the memorial of his death. It could be once a week, once a month, every other year, every ten years, etc., etc. Just as long as it was remembered in one regular form or another.

  I've been debating whether or not to attend the memorial this year with my wife and what excuse to give her if she asks why. The simplest explanation I was going to give her was that I went last year. And if she retorts back with, "Well, you have to go this year too," I will ask her to show me from the bible where it says that I have to observe this most celebrated occasion each and every year and why not just every few years or so. I imagine a teardrop or two may form from that question.

  Has anyone else ever thought about these timeframes that the WTS puts into place? Do you feel that it is extremely important to follow the time and date outline that the WTS provides? Or is it just their own flawed interpretation? Even Christendom follows an Easter Sunday yearly routine. But what do rabbits and eggs have to do with Jesus in the first place?
• 

  Quotes

  Good question.
  
  Of course, the WT has an answer (or at least, a response). They say that the fisrt Last Supper (hey, I like that: FIRST LAST SUPPER) was on the Jewish Passover (and by extension, they say it replaced the Jewish passover).
  
  Since the Passover is annual, therefore Memorial is also annual. There is only this indirect inference, no explicit words from JC or any of the bible verses. You would think if the timing (weekly, annually, whenever you feel like it) it was so important, it would be clearly recorded. The fact that it wasn't makes your conclusion (personal choice) more reasonable.
  
  On the one hand, they condemn and ridicule Jewish "TRADITION", yet on the other hand embrace it.
  
  The Memorial gives a grand total of 180 seconds to explainig the timing (that's some pretty fast tap dancing!):
  
  http://quotes.watchtower.ca/observing_the_memorial.htm
  
  =======================
  WHEN THE MEMORIAL SHOULD BE OBSERVED (3 min.)
  
  Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide assemble for Memorial on Nisan 14
  
  Today, after sundown, is Nisan 14, according to Biblical calendar
  
  On evening of Nisan 14, 1513 B.C.E., Israel held first Passover, so named because firstborn were 'passed over,' or spared (Ex 12:26, 27)
  
  Next morning, still Nisan 14, Moses led Israel out of Egypt
  
  Israel was commanded to celebrate this deliverance annually
  
  Celebration involved roast lamb, bitter herbs, and unleavened bread; wine was later added
  
  On evening of Nisan 14, 33 C.E., Christ instituted Memorial of his death right after celebrating his last Passover and dismissing Judas Iscariot (Mt 26:17-19; Joh 13:21-30)
  
  Memorial of Christ's death celebrated annually
  
  It is thus observed only once a year, as was the Passover
  
  =======================
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Quotes has the wt reasoning on target.

  I think the entire thinking is wrong. To me there seems to be nothing in Jesus' words to indicate that he was establishing anything remotely similar to what Jw's do annually. I cannot imagine that he expected 15 million people to gather at roughly the same moment and then [with the exception of 8500 or them] ignore his instruction to "keep doing this in remembrance of me".

  Seems like we could remember the sacrifice and it's meaning at anytime we gathered in fellowship - that is likely what the early Christians did - they may have regularly taken meals together as they fellowshipped in private homes. And that would call to the mind the time that Christ spoke those words.

  It is viewed by most Christians as a holy sacrament of some sort - but all but witnesses at least do what they did at the first 'Lord's supper' - they partake.

  Funny how for 45 years I did not get that!

  Jeff
• 

  JAVA

  I've been debating whether or not to attend the memorial this year with my wife and what excuse to give her if she asks why.

  Why not say that you're not interested in watching a group of people watch others pass bread and wine around a room? If one was to "keep doing this" as reported in the Bible, then folks should do more than just pass the stuff around.
• 

  lonelysheep

  Or did he simply say to "keep doing this in rememberance of me?" To me, this statement leaves open any timeframe as to when you could observe the memorial of his death. It could be once a week, once a month, every other year, every ten years, etc., etc. Just as long as it was remembered in one regular form or another.

  Those are my feelings on it as well. And didn't they eat and drink it, not pass it?? At the memorial last year, I was taken back by that. I thought, wtf? IMO, Catholics got this more correct than jw's.
• 

  startingover

  I would like to know where the scripture is that says all these people have to go just to observe.
• 

  outoftheorg

  Why doesn't the jw celebration, if it has the wine and unleavened bread "yuck", also have the roast

  lamb and bitter herbs "yuck" ??. Isn't this what the original one had??

  I'd go for just the roast lamb and a little wine, or a lot of wine, forget the herbs and taste less crackers.

  Outoftheorg
• 

  sweet tee

  From the very beginning the JW Memorial reminded me of Easter Sunday ... they make such a big ta-do about what they'll wear, then sit throught that boring ass discourse for the umpteenth time ... watch the emblems go around - and if someone partook for the first time it was all abuzz in the KH at the next meeting or out in field service. Then, because the Detroit area usually has more than one cong. in the same hall - rush out so the next group can hear the same dribble and perfunctory emblem passing ( ... OH LORD!) THEN ... it's out to dinner so you can show off your new DUDS!

  Just thinking about that crap makes me feel depressed ...

  Funny though, I haven't 'partaken' of the emblems the few times I've visisted churches. Never made that 'first sunday' which is when a lot churches have communion ... or whatever they call it
• 

  AGuest

  May you have peace! I would like to reply, if you will indulge me; however, I'm not sure my response is going to go over any better than the WTBTS and other current religious views, but since you asked:

  The truth is that what my Lord intended is NOT merely for a small group of people, is NOT merely an observance by a larger group, nor intended for once a year, once a month, or once a week: it is a daily feeding. The WTBTS erroneously corresponds the "Lord's evening meal" with the Jewish Passover, because my Lord first had his followers do it on that day. This meal did not supersede the Passover, however; it supersedes the eating of the manna in the wilderness, by means of which all of Israel (and those who went with them) were sustained... daily. Then, such ones ate manna, bread from heaven, on a daily basis in order to keep their flesh (souls) alive. When my Lord gave the instruction, however, it was in anticipation of EVERYTHING "passing over" from death... to life... or flesh... to SPIRIT... and so one is to eat in order to live... SPIRITUALLY. And just as ALL ate while in the wilderness... Israelite and "vast mixed company" alike... ALL should do so today - there is no limitation to a particular small group.

  And just like all ate EVERY day, then, to stay alive physically, all who wish to live spiritually should do so... EVERY day.

  Christ is the manna... the bread from heaven... so that anyone who eats of his flesh... shall live forever.

  In addition, ALL who left Israel also drank from the rock-mass. There was no water in that area, and so water was provided by God, the Most Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH, of Armies, from the rock-masses. Those rock-masses represent the Christ... from whom we must DRINK... in order to keep living. that is why Christ said, "Come to me, all you who are thirsting, and DRINK!" It is why he told the Samaritan woman at the well, "If you knew who you were asking, he would give you water... which would become in you a fountain bubbling up to impart life," and told her that she would never thirst again. It is why it was written, "Out of HIS inner most parts, springs of living water will flow."

  The PROBLEM is that the WTBTS... and [christian] religion, in general, have "seated themselves in the seat of Moses," placing themselves between those who wish to see and know God... and God. In TRUTH, the ONLY One... who should be between you and God... is Christ. He is the Mediator. There is no other.

  [Christian] religion has twisted the purpose of the Apostles and "overseers," whose jobs were, first, to simply TELL folks about the Christ, and then move on (take Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, for example: Philip did his thing, the Ethiopian did his thing, and then they went their separate ways - no church, no field service, no minister, no congregation (per se). Secondly, they were to see that any among them who were without were taken care of (i.e., widows and orphans) in the "distribution" (they "oversaw" the FAIR distribution of donated food, clothing, etc., by those who gave, to who were in need. Nothing else, nothing more).

  That is why Paul (who is my brother, but NOT my leader) said, "We are not masters over your faith." So many look to Paul... and, unfortunately, follow Paul, who himself he wished they wouldn't. Others built upon Peter, based on one simple statement by my Lord, "On this rock..." Peter... was not the "rock" of which my Lord spoke - Peter's FAITH was that rock... and it is rock upon which we, too, are to build our "houses," the TEMPLES that are our SPIRITUAL bodies, in which God, through Christ, dwells.

  Religion... particularly the psuedo-christian type... is indeed a "snare and a racket." Christ said, "you HAVE one Leader." He said, "Follow ME." The Father said, "This is my Son, the beloved; listen to HIM." Unfortunately, most "sheep" do not know the voice of the Fine Shepherd, the TRUE Master, and so go hither and there, following all kinds of voices, and those... of "strangers."

  You do not have to do so, however. No one does. The ONLY One one needs to follow is the Christ: what HE did; what HE said. What he says to you, now.

  That is the true joy... of a FREE people: being able to live without putting your trust in earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs, but in God. To know God and see God. And the ONLY way to know God... is to know... Christ. Not "take in knowledge" of Christ, but KNOW Christ. And the ONLY way to SEE God... is to SEE... Christ. For if you see the Son, then you've seen the Father. And no, the two are not the same individual; however, they are one... in that WE are/can be one, with them.

  How? My Lord says:

  "He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood... IS IN UNION WITH ME."

  That is why some call it "communion," meaning to "come into union with," to "commune with," to "be unified with"... another.

  If, then, God and Christ are one, by means of being in union... and we can be in union with God, by means of being in union with Christ... and we can be in such union by means of eating his flesh and drinking his blood... why would we NOT do so? And how OFTEN would we want to be in such union? Once a year? Once a month? Once a week? Or every day? For me... EVERY day is a "holy sabbath" and "day of rest" to JAH. EVERY day is a day that I wish to enter into HIS "rest"... and find refreshment for my soul and my spirit.

  It does not have to be a great big pomp and circumstantial ritual that most have created it to be. It can as private as you wish it to be... or shared with friends and loved ones. Not as a major religious "ceremony," but as a given: I eat physical food and drink H2O to keep my physical body alive. I don't make a big deal out of it: it is fairly routine. In the same way, because I want to keep my SPIRITUAL body alive... I eat the flesh of my Lord... as symbolized by unyeasted bread... and drink his blood... as symbolized by new wine. Do I know that this is not real flesh and real blood? Of course! But that is not the point - the point is that they SYMBOLIZE the flesh and blood of my Lord, which flesh and blood is TRUE food and TRUE drink... that which imparts EVERLASTING life... SPIRITUAL life... and so I eat and drink... in FAITH. Faith that what it REPRESENTS... can and will do what he has promised it will.

  My Lord... is the Tree of Life... by whose "leaves"... his flesh... if we eat of them... we can cheat Death. Maybe not for our flesh, but certainly for our spirits. For the flesh, our flesh, is of no use at all. His, however, imparts life. That's why he gave it for us.

  And yes, I will attend the WTBTS's "memorial" service... and eat and drink. I have since 1997, even though they cast me out for doing so. Why? Because I OWE it to those who are still enslaved by that very "exacting master" to do so! If the flesh and blood of the Christ is the means by which we can truly live forever (John 6:51-53), and such ones have been precluded from partaking of it due to the lies and false propaganda of the modern "scribes and Pharisees" who prohibit them (thereby "shutting up the kingdom of the heavens before" such ones"), then I am OBLIGATED to show those among them who ARE asking, who ARE seeking, who ARE knocking, who ARE thirsting... what it is they should do. Even in the face of opposition. Because it is the least that I would want them to do for me: subject themselves, even under harsh persecution, if it means showing me what is right to do.

  The WTBTS has promised that "YOU... Can Live Forever!"... by listening to and following them. They say that you will be resurrected after you die because you will have paid for your sins. Dear one... your blood cannot atone for sin. For yours or any one else's.

  My Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH, of Armies... however, has said:

  "He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood... will live forever... and I will resurrect him on the last day."

  He can say this... and do this, dear one... because HIS blood... was and can yet be offered up as a sacrifice for you... to atone for YOUR sins... as well as those of your entire household, on your behalf.

  I have children (and potential grand-children, etc.) that I want to live, and so, I eat... and I drink...so that by reasons of my FAITH... in Christ and the atoning factor of his blood, along with the live-giving properties of his flesh... they just might.

  Again, I bid you the greatest of peace, and ears to hear, should you so desire, as the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying:

  "Come! Take "life's water"... FREE!"

  A slave of Christ, to time indefinite,

  "Rahab" (SJ, a sinner who appreciated the merciful opportunity to live and walk by FAITH,... which is WAY easier... than trying to live by works [of the Law])
• 

  johnnappleseed

  Most scholars take the view of "the Venerable Bede" who in 8th Century England speculated that the name Easter may have come from the name for the Anglo-Saxon Pagan goddess Eastre or Ostara, known in the Middle East as Astarte, and legend says that to delight children Ostara turned her pet bird into a rabbit which began to lay brightly colored eggs, which she gave to children. But there are other possibilities. For one, the name may simply come from Anglo-Saxon "eastre" from which come east, easterly or eastern, which would be logical because Christianity entered from the Orient or east of Europe. It may also derive from the Bible's speaking of Christ as someday returning to resurrect people from out of the east (Mt 24:27), from Revelation 2:28 saying "I will also give him the morning star" or Revelation 22:16 saying "I, Jesus, ... am the Root and the offspring of David, and bright Morning Star."

  Some modern persons including those misled by the Watchtower Society over Jehovah's Witnesses have attacked the celebration of Easter by calling today's usage of Easter rabbits and eggs a deplorable vestige of ancient fertility or sex rituals that pre-dated Christianity. They contend that Easter, which is so highly esteemed by most Christians is tarred with an immorality that God could not possibly find acceptable. In fact some ancient cultures indeed have used colored eggs to symbolize different ideas or as part of worship as when, for example, the Chinese, have used eggs dyed red to symbolize good luck, and in Europe pagans did also used egg in religion.

  But even if the day's name in English, the usage of rabbits and eggs might all have started from Pagans, regardless many wedding customs, names of days and months, designs on money, and even names of Christians in the Bible (Apollo, Jason, etc) etc are also of non--Christian, Pagan origin. Yet those have always been perfectly acceptable for Christians, even those who speak against Easter. A fruitage of God's spirit is joy (Ga 5:22), and whether some aspects of Easter may or may not have come from previous Pagan celebrations of spring time, or Judaism, the fact is that Christianity, which much uses Easter or the day of the Last Supper memorial, defeated Paganism and also outgrew Judaism. In fact Paul counsels at Colossians and Romans 14:1-5 that Christians have freedom to observe or not observe days and to hold different views.