More conversations with my wife - birthdays this time

by ithinkisee 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ithinkisee

  I was out to lunch with my wife today and she was telling me how our child did not want to go to school that day because they were doing a bunch of St Patricks Day stuff. Our child REALLY can't stand being different and left out. I feel so bad for my child. I wish I could speed up this exit process and getting my wife to think for herself. . . .
  

  Regardless ...

  I just rolled my eyes about St Patties and said, "Aw, they're probably just going to do a bunch of stuff about Ireland and something with the color green. It won't be that big of a deal."

  Then somehow the subject of birthdays came up. Seemed like a chance to sow a seed or two ...

  So, I calmly and inquisitively asked her if she ever read that article about pinatas and their obvious pagan origins and how the Society said 'A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area.' She got a weird expression on her face like "What?!" I said yeah and that it seems 180 degrees different from what they always said. She said she would have to look that up.

  Then she said, "Well, I think the thing with birthdays is that they weren't celebrated by the early Christians."

  To which I answered that there are LOTS of things the early Christians didn't do that we do, like anniversaries, graduation parties, and so forth.

  She agreed with me.

  Then she said, "Well, I think it also had alot to do with giving undue honor to a person." To which I answered that this would mean we couldn't ever have ANY kind of party for ANYONE for ANY reason - graduations, anniversaries, baby showers, going away parties, etc.

  Again, she AGREED!

  At this point I was taken aback, so I just smiled and continued on as if we never really had that conversation. I figured that was enough for that day, and I would let her work on that for awhile.

  If you remember I made a similar post about my wife when I mentioned how ridiculous it was that the CO and publications seemed to push baptism at even earlier ages. She agreed with me then too.

  I know every discussion on these topics in the future won't always have the same measure of success, but I am really happy right now about those two little things. I am still planting seeds in my father-in-law as well.

  I just want to say this site has helped immensely. These initial "harmless" conversations with my wife are helping me to learn to be very quiet and loving and sincere with my conversation - as opposed to my tendency to get very passionate and earnest with my discussion when I am convinced I am right.

  Thanks to everyone here,

  -ithinkisee
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  kls

  My husband agrees that somethings with the jw ( cult ) are not right as to why or why not celebrate certain things or the meaning but most jws just don't care . As long as the stupid tower says no ,then it's no ,and we all know the stupid tower knows everything.

  Keep picking here and there and maybe one day she will wakeup from her controled mind,you never know.
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  ithinkisee

  It was surprising to me that she just went into JW mode so easily. Her conditioned responses couldn't be scripted any better if I wrote it myself.

  I mean, I guess it's not surprising because I was the same way. Sad really.

  Personally, my strategy is to get her to acknowledge these small things, and then when the big stuff comes up, I can say, "Remember the flawed logic about birthdays (or the cross, etc)? Well, the same flawed logic is present in the 607 date (or 1914, or 144000, or blood, or prophet flip-flops, etc)." And then present the information.

  I'm just looking for the wedge in, that's all.

  I was satisfied with the conversation.

  -ithinkisee
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  HadEnuf

  That is so great to hear!! Who knows when your little seeds of doubt may explode into COMPLETE agreement with you!

  Cathy L.
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  Bryan

  Great job... let her lead herself to the water.

  Bryan

  Have You Seen My Mother
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  ezekiel3

  Good work! This is exactly how it is done. JW conditioning needs kid gloves to get past all the programming. Don't be too hasty to close the deal though. It looks like this bit of headway has grated you some patience as well.

  Wait until she offers up an inconsistency or greivance. Then play WT advocate: "But don't they say that..."

  You will find she may defend her position even if it means contradicting the WTS.

  Later you can use this as currency when you have an issue. "But why do you believe this when you said that about the other thing..."

  Sorry to encourage mind games with your wife, but this is the only way (other than an intervention) to extract her from the Org.
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  RunningMan

  You might want to consider this scripture with her. It is generally regarded that Job celebrated birthdays, although in some cases, the wording is not conclusive:

  Job 1:4 (Amplified Bible)

  Amplified Bible (AMP)

  4 His sons used to go and feast in the house of each on his day (birthday) in turn, and they invited their three sisters to eat and drink with them. ( A )
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  ithinkisee

  In fact, I am going to hit the WT-CD-Rom when I get home and print out the pinata article and some of the others that have been mentioned in the past.

  For those of you looking for these yourselves:

  *** g03 9/22 pp. 23-24 The Piñata?An Ancient Tradition ***

  *** g03 4/8 p. 30 From Our Readers ***

  *** g02 6/8 Let?s Have a Hawaiian Luau ***

  I have actual scans of these articles, so if you want them, PM me and we can set it up.

  -ithinkisee
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  jeanniebeanz

  I'm really happy for you. It's little victories like these that can eventually lead to her waking up.

  Here's hoping!!

  J
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  ithinkisee

  So I printed out those references. The thing that bothers me is that these lines of reasoning are COMPLETELY NEW to the Society, but they are introduced to the reader's through the AWAKE! and also through FOOTNOTES instead of formally addressing it in a proper article.

  I am assuming maybe this way they can say in a couple of years that "the Society has always maintained the view that you need to look at how the celebration is viewed today, and not hundreds of years ago. YOU PUBLISHERS read too much into our literature in the past and took it literally and banned everything." (Following their typical line of blaming the publishers.)

  *** g03 9/22 pp. 23-24 The Piñata?An Ancient Tradition ***

  The Piñata Today

  Later, the piñata became part of the festivities of the posadas during the Christmas season and continues as such to this day. (A star-shaped piñata is used to represent the star that guided the astrologers to Bethlehem.) Breaking the piñata is also considered indispensable at birthday parties. Indeed, piñatas have become so traditionally Mexican that Mexico even exports them to other countries.

  We found that for many people in Mexico, the piñata has lost its religious significance and is considered by most to be just harmless fun. In fact, piñatas are used in Mexico on many festive occasions, not just for the posadas or for birthdays. And piñatas can be purchased in many forms other than the traditional star shape. They are sometimes made to resemble animals, flowers, clowns.

  When considering whether to include a piñata at a social gathering, Christians should be sensitive to the consciences of others. (1 Corinthians 10:31-33) A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues. The Bible says: "Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person."?1 Corinthians 10:24.

  *** g03 4/8 p. 30 From Our Readers ***

  Luaus I read with interest your article "Let?s Have a Hawaiian Luau." (June 8, 2002) Several years ago I attended a luau in Hawaii. I felt there were strong religious and spiritistic overtones. Even if luaus today do not involve religious or spiritistic aspects, how are they different from other celebrations that have pagan origins but simply have been adopted by modern cultures to be a family fun gathering?

  L. F., United States

  "Awake!" responds: As noted there in our footnote on page 24, while the luau may at one time have had a connection with false religious practices, the word now has simply come to refer to a Hawaiian banquet. A specific gathering to which the word "luau" is applied may or may not be appropriate for a Christian to attend. As in all aspects of life, Christians should make decisions that will leave them with a clear conscience before Jehovah God.?1 Timothy 1:5, 19; see also the January 8, 2000, issue of "Awake!" pages 26-7.

  *** g02 6/8 Let?s Have a Hawaiian Luau ***

  [Footnote]

  Although the luau may originally have had some connection with false religious practices, the word has simply come to refer to a Hawaiian banquet. Many Christians may therefore conscientiously feel that they can participate.