by ithinkisee 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
You must be congratulated on your patience ithinkisee. I only hope I can be as restrained when I start the sowing seeds of doubt in my family.
Can you tell me when the piñata article came out?
At a family get together a year or two ago we had one. Might try and get them into dialogue by asking if we'll have one this year.
Hi ithinkisee
Isn't this just so exciting!?!
One line of reasoning that I used with my hubby regarding birthdays and the issue of not giving "undue" honor to individuals, was to ask what was meant by "undue honor"? It makes it sound that there's an amount that is appropriate and wouldn't be regarded as sinful - you know, "due" honor, so to speak...
Anyway the conversation continued along the lines of how it's our job as parents to foster healthy self-worth and healthy self-esteem in our children. Who could argue with that? What difference does it make if we show appreciation and love for our child on the anniversary of the day that each one joined our family, compared to just any old day (which JWs more often than not are "too busy" to do)? How is it Creature Worship? to have a cake on the anniversary of your birth, but not Creature Worship? to have a cake to celebrate a wedding (with all its pagan origin customs and traditions)? Is our child's self-esteem worth damaging by teaching them that the day they were born wasn't one of the most important and happiest days of our lives, and worthy of being remembered and celebrated?
Another favorite Watchtower article of mine is the December 15, 2001 Questions from Readers, about how it's ok for JW wives who have non-JW husbands to participate in holiday preparations, purchases, gatherings, with only one proviso: that they not engage in an act of false worship. Again, the concept of "acts of false worship" is not clearly defined. And why is it OK for JW women who have unbelieving husbands, but not OK for every other JW? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? You can really have a lot of fun with that article.... when your wife is ready.
Love, Scully
I'm printing this out and giving it to a girlfriend for her children. This is HUGE.
You know I threw my own birthday party when I turned 25, I had the TIME OF MY LIFE. I wore a tiara all day, dressed up, I really felt special. So what if there is UNDUE honor placed on a person... you can't tell me that the elders, COs, bethalites, don't heap up "undue honor" when they visit the lowly publishers. They get special treatment. Why can't the little person get 1 day to celebrate the fact they are alive?
At the 2003 district convention, there was a brief mention on Sunday afternoon regarding the pure teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses. One of the examples given was that they do not give honor to humans by celebrating birthdays.
About an hour later, the missionaries who had been brought home for the convention were invited to the stage. At our assembly, there were eight groups (either couples or singles), and each group took up a position at either the corner or center of each side of the stage. The speaker then proceeded to compliment them, and then the audience treated them to an extended standing ovation.
I doubt if any birthday party ever indulged in so much human-worship as this little exersize. Your wife may have been present for it.
I'm not sure if early Jehovah's Witnesses celebrated birthdays, but I'd be inclined to say they did based on this. They celebrated Christmas! My grandma's KH has a huge library of old books, and there were Christmas songs in the first JW songbook! I couldn't believe it when I saw that!
Great post!
I'm in the exact same boat as you ithinkisee with my wife.I will print the material and add it to my collection.
The main point I'm presently using is the LOVE issue based on Jn13:34-35.I have never had even 1 true jw friend and presently have no friends because I turned my back on all my "worldly associates" when I became a jw.My wife has seen all but one of her close friends(some who called her a sister or daugther) turn on her for basic trivial reasons.Also the conduct of many others in the congregation,including some ms and elders has shown a severe lack of love.And it's not the odd isolated case but a general problem here.When I asked her "can you feel the love?",she didn't say anything.She has a very hard time going to meetings without me and I told her if there was true genuine christian love there,you wouldn't be afraid to go by yourself,you would still love going.Anyways,this angle is working slowly in my favor.
Keep us posted on your progress,I really enjoy reading about it.
Goldminer
IthinkIsee,
I have had the same kind of conversations with my mate. It is so exhilerating when they agree with logic and seem confused if even for a split second. Keep up the excellent work!!
I have only one caution. Well, not caution really but just a lesson I've learned. They will agree that certain things don't make sense and then when there is no other JW scripted logic to give you the answer becomes ' well the GB or Society says we shouldn't do these things and even if it doesn't make sense we should be obedient to Jehovahs' org'.
I'm not saying I don't believe that logic can be overcome it is interesting to see when someone has to finally admit that just being told by the society is the real reason they do things. That in itself after it happens enough can make someone wonder about their beliefs.
Another avenue is how will she explain birthdays or other things to an outsider since she knows her logic is flawed and can't readily admit to worldly people that she won't celebrate them because the Society says not to. I've seen that cause real headaches and just plain avoidance and even some lessening of the pressure on the young ones. Nobody wants to feel dumb in front of their kids teacher with logic even their silly old husband can dismante. They actually begin to like it when nobody questions them about their beliefs because they can't really explain them. Thus they start to let the young ones do a little bit more.
Hope this wasn't confusing.
Then she said, "Well, I think the thing with birthdays is that they weren't celebrated by the early Christians."
Do we know for sure the early Christians didn't celebrate birthdays? I don't recall any scripture that specifically stated that they didn't. The bible speaks only of two birthday celebrations where something bad happened, and that's the excuse the society uses to ban birthday celebrations. There is no biblical prohibition on it.
Saying the early Christians didn't celebrate birthdays because the bible doesn't mention it is like saying North America didn't exist because the bible didn't mention it either.
Walter
Well, I don't have the references in front of me right now, but apparently the Society quotes some first century writers that claim the Christians specifically avoided birthdays, or that there was some stigma about birthdays, or something.
I'll poke around when I get home tonight.
--thinkisee
Change in tone, which shows the slippery wording of the original article and the 2003 re-do:
1971 Awake, 6/22:
But even though the use of the piñata is quite popular in some places, there are those who have serious misgivings about the false religious practices connected with it.
The rest of the article was a discussion of the pinata, emphasizing, not the fun "custom" like the new article, but the connections to the celebration of "posadas", Xmas, Catholics and the Devil.
Hmmm.....
