Ten killed in US school shooting

by Simon 82 Replies latest social current

• 

  RunningMan

  I think it would be wrong to think this is an American phenomenon. Take, for example, Dunblane Scotland (16 dead) and Montreal Canada (14 dead - university). Let's not forget that the US has 10 times the population of Canada and 5 times the population of the UK.

  And, I agree that this one is getting less media coverage than Columbine, partly because it is not as "new" and partly because it happened on an Indian reservation, therefore allowing the viewing audience to distance themselves.

  However, I just can't let this comment go:

  If someone wants to kill others they will find a way to do it. If they don't have access to guns they will use other methods.

  Aside from bombs and military equipment (which are pretty hard to get ahold of), there aren't a lot of other methods to effectively kill ten people - just try knifing your entire school. It doesn't work very well.
• 

  fleaman uk

  fleaman- are you saying that the fact that the UK's crime rate has skyrocketed is ridiculous, as in- something awful which needs to be addressed or are you questioning the veracity of the facts

  i am questioning the veracity of the facts.I agree crime is bad in the Uk,but if you look closely at any "facts"you will see that murder,rape and any awful crimes against Person are not likely to happen to the average citizen.Even Gun crime (which ,yes is on the increase in isolated areas)mostly affects the minorities.Unfortunately,Black males are the biggest offenders it would seem.They are also the likeliest Victims.Though of course the innocent suffer.sadly a case a few years ago was concluded this week on that very theme in Birmingham.

  i fail to see how our crime even remotely comes close to serious Crime in the U.S?

  But i just know your dying to dazzle us with facts and figures to suggest otherwise....
• 

  franklin J

  terrible tragedy.....
• 

  glitter

  I live in (as far as the UK goes) a pretty rough and dangerous area - the local pub close to me has had some problems with drug dealers and gangs - including at least one shooting, and there have been two murders down the road so far this year.
  
  But I've never wanted to have a gun (if I could), we don't even have a burglar alarm or lock our doors until gone 11pm.
  
  If people buy guns for protection, but then have to keep them unloaded for safety, what is the point? If I needed a gun for protection it would be loaded and at hand at all times. But I can't imagine being terrified 24/7 in a civilised country.
  
  The massacre at Dunblane was carried out with a legally-held handgun by a gunclub member - now you can't legally have a handgun AFAIK. Gun crime has gone up, but that's criminals for you - our kids don't shoot their brothers and sisters though.
  
  Glitter, I suggest you get your story right, when did I say, "guns are designed to fire a bullet, that's all?" I don't own a gun, I have no objections to others owning a gun.
  
  Where did I say that YOU said it? I said *don't* say it... it's what some pro-gun people claim guns are for. I suggest you calm down.
• 

  xenawarrior

  fleaman- are you saying that the fact that the UK's crime rate has skyrocketed is ridiculous, as in- something awful which needs to be addressed or are you questioning the veracity of the facts

  i am questioning the veracity of the facts.I agree crime is bad in the Uk,but if you look closely at any "facts"you will see that murder,rape and any awful crimes against Person are not likely to happen to the average citizen.Even Gun crime (which ,yes is on the increase in isolated areas)mostly affects the minorities.Unfortunately,Black males are the biggest offenders it would seem.They are also the likeliest Victims.Though of course the innocent suffer.sadly a case a few years ago was concluded this week on that very theme in Birmingham.
  

  i fail to see how our crime even remotely comes close to serious Crime in the U.S?

  But i just know your dying to dazzle us with facts and figures to suggest otherwise....

  You don't believe the bbc? The research that has been done about the crime rate increases since your ban on guns? All it did was put more guns in the hands of criminals and the general populace cannot protect themselves. Murder, rape and any awful crimes agains person "are not likely to happen to the average citizen"? really? Minorities are not citizens in your country? They happen to make up a large portion of the crime statistics here yet you want to take them out of the statistics there to water it all down? As far as your crime coming remotely close to serious crime in the U.S. I don't think I said that or even suggested it. It also has a great deal to do with numbers. The population of the UK : 59.6 million. Population of the U.S.: 295.7 million. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/1440764.stm

  BBC News Online: UK

  Monday, 16 July, 2001, 04:50 GMT 05:50 UK

  Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

  some bits from the article:

  A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned
  ------------------------------

  The Centre for Defence Studies at Kings College in London, which carried out the research, said the number of crimes in which a handgun was reported increased from 2,648 in 1997/98 to 3,685 in 1999/2000.
  -------------------

  The campaign's director, David Bredin, said: "It is crystal clear from the research that the existing gun laws do not lead to crime reduction and a safer place.

  These aren't my facts, they are out there. And what is wrong with facts?
• 

  adelmaal

  Armed with at least two weapons - a handgun and a shotgun thought to have been taken from his grandfather

  Yet another reason it's just plain nonsense to have a gun in your house. It seems like guns in the home are more likely to be used on one of your family members or friends than they are on a criminal breaking in... But hey - let's hear it for the right to bear arms!!! Whoopee!!!

  Simon you said,

  It seems to me Americans are in denial

  blah blah blah... IMO you would get so much more respect for your views if you just stuck to the issues rather than resorting to generalizations. I've only been posting on this board for a short time and already your US/America bashing is getting old.

  We are not all the same, we do not all agree with the lack of gun control and there is good and bad in every society. It really makes you sound ignorant when you resort to lumping people together into one big negative stereotype.
• 

  doogie

  i think it's interesting that this has turned into an "OUR country is much safer than YOUR country..." thread.

  it's a terrible tragedy that these kids died but this is NOT a common occurance or a new phenomenon and is NOT isolated to one nationality. this is a heartbreaking situation, and i don't mean to sound callous, but this is not the end of society as we know it. it should be a wake up call to parents, but not a sign that society as a whole is in trouble.
• 

  fleaman uk

  xenawarrior

  Talking to People like you is like banging ones Head against a brick wall!You will respond with facts ,figures etc until eventually it is impossible to even remember what it was we were talking about.

  The fact remains Dunblane 1996 and Hungerford 1987 are the only tragic Gun massacres in this Country in recent Years.In America,tragically it happens every 5 Minutes it seems.

  What was the topic again....????
• 

  Golf

  Glitter I take the lives of people seriously! I grew up in rough neighborhood where you had to take care of yourself. I take my job seriously because lives are involved, death surrounds me. When a life is taken, I feel it, because its needless.
  
  
  Golf
• 

  whyamihere

  This should nothing to do with Americans or Brits...my god people get a fricken clue.

  Its obvious there is someone to blame but pointing fingers here and there talking nonsense gets you no where but in a stupid petty state of mind.

  Morn for the loss and try and educate yourself to become a better person with understanding. This is a lesson that should never have happened. Think of what truly matters. And not your prejudice selfless mindless thoughts on who to blame.

  Brooke