Well I do not have a problem with the trinitarian view if they admit they employ a polytheist view of God. Mormons are trinitarians who admit to being polytheists. Saying that God is 3 in 1 is really a denial. It is still polytheism. Modalism can not be called polytheist since there is only one person in the Godhead.
Modalism vs. Trinitarianism (which one stands better against JW doctrine?)
by Ianone 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
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cyborgVision
I think this is the issue of misunderstood semantic which is often out of realm of knowledge for most people not familiar with either Greek or Hebrew. Unfortunately, these are precisely the ones having heated debate about trinity, no offence intended. However, your best clue is in the book of Genesis 1:26 where God is quoted as saying
?Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness?
Got it yet?
If the man was created in God?s image then it would imply that man also has a form of trinity within himself, or replica thereof if you wish, which is a powerful statement against any Trinitarian nature of god. Who among you has two, three or more personalities i.e. two, three or more living and distinct consciousnesses or beings as part of your makeup???
In fact, today we consider it as disease if someone claims to have multiple personalities within himself and we call it MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER
IF IN DOUBT CHECK THIS OUT
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Qcmbr
Mormons believe:
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Qcmbr
...in pressing the submit button to early!
Let me continue:
1/ We are all literal spirit children of God the Father (that includes Jesus and Satan and all the angels)
2/ God the Father has a body of flesh and bone. There is also a Heavenly Mother.
3/ There was a war in heaven in which Satan and a third of our family was cast out for rebellion agaisnt the plan (come to earth get a body in the next step to growing up and progressing to be like our Father)
4/ The remaining family helped to create the Earth (Jesus in charge) by comman of God the Father
5/ Adam and Eve are created and fall (a necessary part in introducing sin into the world - required to give us knowledge of good and evil and the ability to choose)
6/ Jesus offers himself as a sacrifice and the presence of the Father is withdrawn. Jesus becomes our mediator and is therefor Jehovah -(I have graven thee on the palms of my hands - OT). Lucifer continues the war on earth by tempting people along with a third of the host of heaven.
7/ Angels are either people who haven't come to earth yet or if they have a body they are resurrected (Gabriel is Noah!)
8/ Jesus is born , atones and dies and becomes like the Father - He is a God with a physical body (eats fish, can be felt etc..)
9/ Holy Spirit is also our Brother but has not yet received a body.
10/ Three Gods(God as a title - like a Bishop but with a slightly bigger jurisdiction:) one in purpose (To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man)
11/ As children we come to earth to pass through mortality - pain , suffering and family life. Relationships made here can continue. Those who want it can learn all God has and become like Him (Them!) , those who don't can live in whatever manner they please and accept whatever opportunities they want. -
LittleToe
Ian:
Little mason
Resorting to big and colourful fonts does not make your point right!
It copy and pasted that way genius. I didnt do it that way on purpose. And some of these things are copy and pasted from my own website. lol"Haha, haha, hahahahaaaaaaaaaa
You REALLLLLY crack me up!
You'll get yours, Butler...."
("Mutiny on the Buses" - 1972)
I'm pleased to see that you can at least amuse yourself, with your inane humour... Just as a point of software use. When you post, ya see up on that toolbar thingy above the text window? There's a button that looks like an eraser. If you highlight all your text (CTRL-A does this quickly) and then press that button, it'll magically remove all formatting for you. Simple, isn't it? Qcmbr:- At one level I haven't got a problem with that.
- The heavenly mother concept isn't hard to accept, given that "male and female he created them", "in our image", but the flesh and bone thing - you've got supporting documentation problems there - as well as with the Holy Spirit thing, which I'll come back to.
- No problem with the idea of rebellion, but the plan of progression is an interesting one. Further, how do you know that Satan's rebellion wasn't in the plan?
- If the Father had a "body of flesh and bone", why couldn't he create the universe (either in that state, or the previous one)? Further, what material creation did he stand on, in the flesh? Further still, is He merely onother stage of another cycle? And if so, are there endless cycles of rebirth to be had, on higher and higher planes?
- A novel concept of "sin", but not unlike the precepts of some ancient traditions.
- Jesus/Jehovah isn't a new concept to me, hence my earlier comments. However many here will struggle with the idea of the pre-Babylonian member of the polytheistic pantheon, complete with bloodthirsty ways, being synonymous with the NT Jesus. Why does Satan tempt humans, given that he never received a flesh and bone body, did he?
- So there are material and immaterial angels? How do you distinguish them?
- The god-progression thing still doesn't account for even the LDS-KJV using the word Godhead in conection with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit alone. Further, it's certainly not Trinitarian, but rather Polytheistic. It's ok to confess that...
- I always had difficulty with that one. So the Holy Spirit is actually behind us in evolutionary terms, as he remains "merely a spirit". It doesn't answer such questions as why blashpheming the Holy Spirit is a mortal sin, whereas blaspheming the Father and Son is not.
- Ah, the old "God is one in purpose" ploy, that the JWs use to explain those difficult passsages of scripture. WHy not just say that we all emanated from God? It seems you've made a rod for your own back (I mean that as a denominational collective, not personally).
- You forgot to mention accepting whatever consequences, too. The consequence for not becoming a "Latter Day Saint" in your lifetime is an eternity in a lower existance than might have been appreciated, isn't it? A three tier system of reward/punishment. Let's not sugar-coat it, now.
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Qcmbr
Thanks Little Toe. Two points I owe everyone a clarification on: Point 1: Rejecting the Holy Spirit is worse than rejecting Jesus and God the Father - explanation: There are three 'degrees of Glory' (three places of reward for all people who came to earth) 1 Celestial - also known as Eternal Life (Eternal meaning God's Life - not just forever) presided over by our Father. To get here you accept Jesus as your mediator and Saviour. 2 Terrestrial - people here have rejected Jesus as their Saviour (so the atonement is not accepted and they are not made one with their Father) - hence they reject the Father. These are good people who accept Jesus as their ruler ('every knee shall bow and every tongue confess') 3 Telestial - people here are wicked (no I'm not going to define that !) and reject Jesus. They are ministered to by the Holy Spirit. There is one more place - Outer Darkness - the place where Satan and his Angels reside - it is ruled by Cain (he has a body and Satan doesn't) and anyone who rejects even the Holy Spirit will have this as their chosen lot. IE it is not worse to reject the Holy Spirit than toReject Jesus or God the Father it just represents the final rejection that means people don't want to live in a kingdom of glory - in many ways it would have been similar to just rejecting everything in the war in heaven in the beginning. Point 2: The LDS church doesn't believe only Mormons will get to the Celestial Kingdom it believes that eveyone who is accepts the Saviour and lives by His laws will qualify for this opportunity. Everyone gets the chance to really make up their mind in this life or the next (ie not everyone has a fair chance to join the church - I pity those whose only contact would be me ! I'd definately argue their case on the other side hehe) That's why we baptise for the dead, if they decide to accept Jesus later on then the commandment is fulfilled - 'Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit he can in no wise inherit the kingdom of God'. Its not arrogant to think that believers of all faiths will have to change some beliefs when they die because clearly we aren't all right.
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LittleToe
Hi Dave (?),
You have a few more than just two points to explain
So in your estimation, will regular Christians be in the Celestial kingdom, or just those who at some point conform their understanding to the LDS one?
What precisely does it mean to you to "accept Jesus as your mediator and Saviour"?
Is that something that the mainstream churches have a handle on, or are they lacking something essential to achieve Celestial status?I agree that we all have much to learn.
LT, of the "Just passing through, to check my PMs, but getting more and more tempted to come out of semi-retirement" class