Matthew 1:18-25..."the virgin birth"...(seeking exegetical help)

by rick_here 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    One basic principle of semantics is that you don't mean more than one thing at once; if words are polysemic, their use in a given context compels the hearer/reader to pick up one among the many possible meanings in the lexicon instead of adding them.

    Another related principle is that the exocentric, or global, sense of a stereotyped expression holds priority over the endocentric meanings you could form by breaking it into its verbal components.

    Let's take the expression "to be with child". English usage confers it one exocentric meaning (= "to be pregnant") which rules out the possible endocentric meanings a foreign hearer/reader could mistakenly read into it (e.g., to be somewhere with a child around).

    Exegesis, especially in prosaic genre, is generally safe when it sticks to the above semantic principles. Whenever the exocentric meaning of an expression is attested in a similar linguistic context (as en gastri ekhein in the LXX) and there is no contextual indication that anything else is meant, why look for complications?

    Of course poetry, ciphered speech, or the mere play of intertextuality within Biblical and contemporary literature often lead us to outstep those basic principles of semantics in order to find a superposition of meanings. Still, as far as exegesis (vs. creative reading) is concerned, there must be some contextual indication that such superposition of meanings is in order. I fail to see this in the extant text of Matthew 1. To me the meaning "to be pregnant" is fully satisfying.

    Yet a mistaken interpretation of a text is itself another text which may be worth its own exegesis, and generate further creative readings... but here we are out of the scope of traditional Bible exegesis.

  • euripides
    euripides
    Matthew's Gospel, if indeed Matthew was a tax-collector and the author of this Gospel as traditionally known (which I accept, btw); tax-collectors of that era knew various forms of "short-hand (writing)" which was needed for their job descriptions and performance.

    I've wondered if Matthew's Greek might reflect an "abbreviation tendency" and consider this as not only a possibility, but as a possible "key" to understanding his writing (in Greek). I don't want to belabor this point. But I would like to emphasize that centuries-old understandings, based on possible faulty "translations of the Greek" would be unreliable.

    If you have further input for rebuttle, I welcome them (please)! As of now I'm unconvinced (agnostic) of traditionanl interpretations of the text. My only "debate" has to do with finding the true exegesis of this passage.

    I honestly think you would be better off abandoning this position. There is nothing to suggest through the course of this gospel that somekind of koine "shorthand" has been used, or that publicans of the ancient world would have used such a taxonomy (pardon the pun) or especially that this gospel was written by the disciple named in the text. Unless you can produce further evidence of an 'abbreviation tendency' I would be highly skeptical. In fact, the opposite redactional tendency can be observed if one accepts that this gospel uses Mark as one of its sources, as many scholars contend: it elaborates on stories and information, adding details, rather than abbreviating. Further, the Greek itself is not particularly elliptical, nor is it artful.

    What traditional interpretation are you now 'agnostic' about? I believe that the element of 'virgin birth' was probably added to the traditional story circulating about Jesus as influenced by Egyptian virgin birth stories, etc. The text is not particularly ambiguous, in my view. Provide some concrete examples and then each one can be taken in turn.

    Euripides

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Just to add that there is a textual problem in v. 16 bearing on the virgin birth issue in the genealogy, but I guess it is not what Rick had in mind here...

    (According to the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, v. 16 reads: "Joseph, to whom was betrothed Mary the virgin, begot Jesus who is called the Christ.")

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Matthew's Gospel, if indeed Matthew was a tax-collector and the author of this Gospel as traditionally known (which I accept, btw);

    Bear in mind that the gospel makes no claim as to authorship, its author is anonymous. The evidence of Markan priority alone would count against Matthew being an eyewitness account.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Fwiw, a better "professional signature" for the first Gospel might be found in its characteristic positive use of the word "scribe" (alongside the usual negative ones), e.g.:

    Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like the master of a household who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old (13:52).
    Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come upon this generation. (23.34.)
  • rick_here
    rick_here

    First (and foremost); thanks to everyone for your replies!

    To Leolaia,
    for the "scan" of a page from Davies' & Allison's: A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Gospel According to Saint Matthew. (Much needed help, for further studies).

    Euripides,
    "What traditional interpretation are you now 'agnostic' about?"
    Basically, and as it may have "shown", I've been essentially confused about this passage (and specifically regarding the Greek-phrase, above) as it has been traditionally interpreted. Without going into what I've found on 1st century (Jewish) marriage customs, for now anyway; there is some evidence that the passage can be interpreted "non-traditionally" (and/or to mean something different). This other interpretation is contingent on the relationship -- and relevance -- of the Essenes in the NT Era. I believe they were much more "influential" than is normally acknowledged and/or understood. I also see this is a kind of "sub-topic" for this thread that would need to be developed.

    Narkissos,
    "Just to add that there is a textual problem in v. 16 bearing on the virgin birth issue in the genealogy, but I guess it is not what Rick had in mind here... (According to the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, v. 16 reads: "Joseph, to whom was betrothed Mary the virgin, begot Jesus who is called the Christ.")"
    Precisely.
    This, combined with early reports of the Gospel of Matthew being "originally written in Hebrew" (or Aramaic/Syriac?) and the possibility of the Sinaitic Syriac being more "accurate" to the original composition (?).


    Following up on 1st century (Jewish) marriage customs; a footnote in Craig S. Keen's A Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Eerdmans, 1999, p. 92) has,

    "A recently discovered [1st century Judean] marriage contract indicating prior cohabitation [between the 'betrothed']...also assumed a greater likelihood that the woman would get pregnant before the wedding," (Keen citing Jewish Women in Greco-Roman Palestine by Tal Ilan, Hendrickson, p. 100).

    I just got Tal Ilan's book from Amazon.com today and haven't had time to look at it. (I ordered the book because I couldn't find any significant related information on the web). In any event, certain passages from Josephus about "marrying Essenes" fits into the equation (of my train of thought).

    I'll be back...soon. Hopefully with some more info that we can sink our teeth into, as it were.

    rick

    \o/

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist
    Nope: en gastri ekhein (lit. "to have in belly/womb") is a fixed idiom for "be pregnant" (e.g. Herodotus III,32; and LXX Genesis 16,5).

    LXX in the Greek is: εν γαστρι εχει. And the English translation of Herodotus is also open for interpretation, imo. (However, I can't access Herodotus right now @ Perseus). If I'm not mistaken, Herodotus has εχουσα εν γαστρι.

    The phrase you quote from Herodotus is simply a present, indicative, fem. participle. The thing in the Greek is present, indicative, 3rd person. Same meaning.

    Its like: The man, going to the house, is happy. AND The man goes to the house. The man is happy.

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    OH, I didn't see what you posted Leolaia. That explains it much better than I could with my knowledge of Greek grammar.

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