I'm still technically an unbaptised publisher... I'm glad I came to my recent revelations before baptism. Anyway, basically I was stumbled by recent events in our Hall... a respected Pioneer sister tried to seduce my sister-in-law's husband. And when that didn't work she went after another friend's husband. However since there were not 2 witnesses, nothing was done. Our family was told to keep quiet, and I was even warned that judicial action could be taken if they engaged in gossip. Later, the sister mentioned above pretty much ran way with her friend's husband, both baptised Witnesses. there was still no action taken, no announcement made. The people in the Hall obviously wanted to know what had happened, and so the situation was talked about. The 'local needs' talk that week was about gossip, and it was scathing, about how some in the past were stoned for gossip, blah, blah, blah. Nothing has ever been said about this sister and brother who are currently living in sin and going through divorces. Privately, the elders have said to my sister-in-law that they can't take disfellowshipping action if the adultress refuses to meet with them. Taken on its own merits, this situation is bad enough, but when I think of how the elders probably act similarly if allegations of child abuse were raised, it is frightening and disgusting. That concern is what caused me to step back, and seek some real truth. So I read Crisis of Conscience last week, and was fascinated and disturbed, like many on this board, to read about how their votes, many of which are apparently not based on the 'bible-trained conscience', have ruined thousands of lives and continue to do so. My issue now, and the reason for my posting here, is that I don't know how to proceed. Obviously, I'd like to let them know what my issues are and simply stop going to meetings. This however would have an adverse effect on my wife, who is babtised, and was previously disfellowshipped. That experience nearly killed her and I don't want to risk it happening again. Also, I kind of like the in-laws and I'm not looking forward to being tarnished with the apostate brush. My wife has a 10-year-old niece who is baptised, and I'm guessing she has some difficult years ahead. I'd like us to have an opportunity to be there for her and not be isolated from the family again. Going to the ocassional meeting isn't easy but I could probably tolerate it. However, I'm not done with my Bible study... we have 3 chapters left in the Knowledge book, and they (an elder and his wife) want to study the Worship God book with us next. That, I'm not sure I can tolerate. Is there any way of ending this without being looked upon as one who is rejecting the truth? I feel I'm compromising my conscience by pretending, but I don't know how to leave without damaging the familial relationship, and possibly my marriage. My wife has asked me not to be truthful if I do end the study, because she knows she would come under inspection, and frankly she's thinking similarly, knowing that the organization is not after all under Jehovah's direction. In adition to advice on whether I should end the study and how to do so, I don't know where to go from here. I do feel there's a 'god-shaped hole,' that ignorance is bliss. But now I'm faced with some harsh realities. Tim McGraw had a song that mentioned how roads lead to drugs or Jesus, and I'm pretty much in agreement. I've been drinking too much in recent weeks, been very depressed. I'm considering seeing a doctor for anti-depressents. I don't know if many of those reading this have been able to keep some measure of faith without the organizational mess, but if so, I'd appreciate some advice. I feel like I want to find another religious community, obviously one a little less likely to do the shunning thing. Is it even possible for ex-JWs to go to a regular church after all the Bible 'training' we've had? I don't think I can accept the Trinity or Hellfire or any of that. I'm not even sure I can accept religion at all after being told again and again that there's only one true faith. Having rejected that, what are we left with? Anyway, sorry I rambled so much. I've enjoyed reading this forum in recent weeks and look forward to your replies.
2 Witnesses
by viewaskew 10 Replies latest jw experiences
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sting
viewaskew
What a situation!!!
Where do I begin? Firstly don't allow the WTBTS's taeching on hellfire or the trinity affect you going to a God loving church! That is the baggage you need to drop because it is Watchtower and not necessarily biblical!
TALK TALK TALK to your Wife - please reach some agreement together. And YES I do believe in the power of prayer : talk to God about your situation and see what happens! Pray that the falsehood of this deceptive organisation will become plainly obvious to her.
In the meantime grin & bear it praying constantly that the Spirit of God will cause blind eyes to see!
That would be my first step!
sting x
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Gill
Hi Viewaskew and welcome to you!!!
So, you're finally discovering the Real truth about the 'troof' and what a sad pile of shit it all is. Not nice is it?
Losing your family to a cult should you say or do anything is a very difficult problem but fading is an excellent option to avoid trouble.
As for studying furthur....I wish I could give you some constructive advice on that but all I can come up with is burn the books and RUN!
Good luck with this problem. I'm sure someone on the forum will come up with some good ideas to help you!
Gill
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link
Hi viewaskew and welcome to the board.
I was once in exactly the same position as you and managed to get myself out of it. Ask your study conductor a simple question like " I have been reading the Encyclopedia Brittinica and they say that the Temple at Jerusalem was destroyed in 538 BCE not 607. Can you please provide me with a secular source that confirms the 607 date?"
You will get all sorts of excuses as to why he cannot give you any secular source for 607. Appear to accept these feeble excuses because this is your way out.
After a short time go back to the study conductor and say you feel that you would like to terminate the study because you do not feel that you will ever be able to get baptised. He will ask you why.
Tell him that although you might be able to overlook the fact that some of your questions remain unanswered, your concience would never allow you to attempt to get others to believe things that you could not believe yourself. You do not believe that such a thing would be pleasing to God and in view of this you could nevert go out in service and therefore could never be baptised as a Jehovahs Witness.
If they attempt to bully you into continuing with the study then you must appear very concerned that they are pressuring you to go against your concience and make this another reason as to why you wish to discontinue.The harder they push, the worse you can make them look.
Try it. It worked for me and did not harm my relationship with my staunch J.W.wife in the slightest.
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upside/down
It's amazing to me to read Dub spiritual soap opera situations like this! (no offense)
Now that I'm on the outside looking in I see how f*cking messed up the entire Dub world is...
Dilemma after dilemma, always between a rock and a hard place, especially if you're a "good" person. I've been there... a long time.
Try and re read your experience as if it weren't you. It blows my mind how much control an uneducated, fanatical, high-control, superstitious, bottom of the barrel cult can exert over individuals that aren't even "officially in".
The only reason it works is that people (like most here on this forum) willingly submit, because we actually believe them and are really loving people deep down. That's why we freak out when we finally do leave and look back and realize how they played us.
Good luck! You'll need it.
u/d
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Check_Your_Premises
You sound like you are in a similar situation to mine. Except my wife just got dunked. I am now trying to get her out of the cult. I hope you do realize that it is in fact a cult. If not, you will in time. I was studying, but then my eyes were opened. I can't just leave abruptly because my wife got dunked and my 12yr old daughter has bought into alot of this garbage.
Fortunately that is the extent of jw family ties.
I encourage you to check out some other sites, such as freeminds.org, theholdemans.com, freedomofmind.org. The first one has some good refutations of jw doctrine. You might come to realize that you don't agree with the jws quite as much as you thought you did. The holdemans is a mennonite site with great background info on "one true" religions. The last one is a good general purpose cult site.
I hope you can keep your faith intact. Don't let some silly, self-important people ruin Gods's good name for you. That is their purpose.
Feel free to im me. Like I said, I am an unbelieving mate, so my mission in life is extricating my family from this silly bunch.
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adelmaal
I don't know if many of those reading this have been able to keep some measure of faith without the organizational mess, but if so, I'd appreciate some advice. I feel like I want to find another religious community, obviously one a little less likely to do the shunning thing. Is it even possible for ex-JWs to go to a regular church after all the Bible 'training' we've had? I don't think I can accept the Trinity or Hellfire or any of that. I'm not even sure I can accept religion at all after being told again and again that there's only one true faith. Having rejected that, what are we left with?
I know where you are at... Allot of us go through this when we leave the org. I didn't believe any other religion had the truth after being a JW. I actually still don't believe any one religion has the truth per say. I was lost for quite some time and I just avoided religion, God and the Bible because I kept thinking all I would see was that the JWs were right and what I was doing was wrong.
I do not feel that way anymore. Actually, the longer I am away the more I see that the Bible, in my opinion, differs from the belief system of the JWs in many ways. Personally, I find it hard to grasp the fact that I ever believed they had the truth when I read the Bible now.
Examples:
Bible says not to eat the blood or fat of a sacrificed animal. For some reason I thought that JWs saying you could have blood parts but not red blood cells had anything to do with what the Bible says. Not so... I don't see blood broken down into parts in the Bible, I don't see the Bible saying you cannot accept a life saving blood transfusion from a human being, I don't see the Bible saying you cannot store your own blood for future use, etc. The JWs have really stretched this belief and why do they even try to take the blood part literally when they don't even consider not eating fat? Besides, the Bible was talking about the blood of a sacrificed animal. How is that the same as the blood of a human being? How does not eating blood translate to not having a transfusion containing red blood cells? Just doesn't make sense...
The Bible says that all should partake of the wine and bread representing Jesus' flesh and blood. All should benefit from his sacrifice. It also says this should be done until the Son of Man arrives. For some reason I thought that JWs saying that only 144,000 should partake, only 144,000 benefit from the covenant with the Christ and that Christ had somehow already come but yet they still celebrate the Memorial was truth. I don't believe they come even close to practicing what Jesus said we should practice with respect to the Memorial and his coming. It bothers me that so many JWs are actually rejecting his sacrifice and what it means for them by not partaking.
The Bible says that Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes and yet somehow JWs justify disfellowshipping people and saying that their family members cannot even eat a meal with them. How is this scriptural? How does this coincide with Jesus being approachable to all.
I have been reading Crisis of Conscience and it has really been helping me to see how much blood guilt that organization really has. They have messed up peoples lives so badly and yet they have made no apologies for it. They are just another manmade religion and when you can accept that then you can take what you want and leave the rest behind. This is what I do with any religion or belief system I am exposed to now. I have broken free from the mentality that I must agree with someone when it comes to what the Bible says, what God wants or what Jesus taught us.
I think religion can be good for those who want fellowship and it can inspire you but I do not believe there is any one religion that will give you all the truth. The fact of the matter is that there are so many opinions out there that we just need to sort through them all and take what we believe to be truth. The JWs are just another religion. The only thing is they enforce the fact that you must agree with them. You must accept what they tell you as truth. It's called mind control and there are other religions that are not this way.
I just try to read the Bible for myself now. I have a relationship with God separate from religion and I study with my children a bit each day helping them to form their own beliefs, opinions and relationship with God. I don't believe God meant for it to be complicated. There are many books such as "The Daily Book of Devotions" that can help you to get something out of the Bible each and every day and you do not need to agree with all of what they say.
I for one do not believe the Trinity in a sense that I do not believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit need to be combined into one being in any way. I do believe they all stem from the same source though. I do not worship Jesus or the Holy Spirit as though they were the same thing as the Almighty God but I do believe they are necessary to have a relationship with God and I believe Jesus was the perfect representation of God on earth.
I also do not believe in hellfire and I do not believe that a loving God is going to kill all those who do not agree with Jehovah's Witnesses. God is loving and merciful and his kindness is undeserved thanks to Jesus and his sacrifice. I trust that God knows who we are and he loves each and every one of is for the goodness in our hearts. How could he turn on someone wanting to worship him but not being sure how to properly do so? I don't think he will.
I think it's possible to love God, to love your neighbor, to recognize the signifigance of Jesus's sacrifice, to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and influence you, to be a good person and to show appreciation for God and all he has done in the way we live our lives and in how raise our families. I do not believe religion is necessary to do so. There are many experiences in the Bible where God's followers had a relationship with him separate from religion.
Ok... Off my soap box now. Hang in there and you will eventually see that there is spirituality and truth separate from JWs. It's a much more loving existence separate from all their rules, judgements and mind control.
This however would have an adverse effect on my wife, who is babtised, and was previously disfellowshipped. That experience nearly killed her and I don't want to risk it happening again. Also, I kind of like the in-laws and I'm not looking forward to being tarnished with the apostate brush. My wife has a 10-year-old niece who is baptised, and I'm guessing she has some difficult years ahead. I'd like us to have an opportunity to be there for her and not be isolated from the family again. Going to the ocassional meeting isn't easy but I could probably tolerate it. However, I'm not done with my Bible study... we have 3 chapters left in the Knowledge book, and they (an elder and his wife) want to study the Worship God book with us next. That, I'm not sure I can tolerate. Is there any way of ending this without being looked upon as one who is rejecting the truth? I feel I'm compromising my conscience by pretending, but I don't know how to leave without damaging the familial relationship, and possibly my marriage. My wife has asked me not to be truthful if I do end the study, because she knows she would come under inspection, and frankly she's thinking similarly, knowing that the organization is not after all under Jehovah's direction.
Personally, I do not see a need for you to share anything you are feeling with the elders or the other brothers and sisters. If you wish to discontinue your study it does not mean you need to provide a reason for doing so. All you need to do is let them know you would prefer not to continue studying. You can continue going if you like and there is no reason you need to justify your lack of study with anyone. You do not need to voice your disagreement with teachings. Take what you agree with and ignore the rest. I know it's hard but for your wife's sake it sounds like you can do that. You are not baptized and you are not required to be. Your relationship with God is your personal business. You are doing your wife a favor by not getting baptized if you do not agree with their teachings. Much better for her to be with you as a worldy person associating than to be with a baptized apostate who leaves. Sticking around will allow you to gradually reason with your wife and maybe she will eventually decide she no longer believes they are teaching the truth either.
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TheListener
Welcome Viewaskew. I wish you all the best. Your situation is dificult but by no means unique. Take some comfort that many here have tread where you are now. Try using the search feature on this board to read experiences of others.
Regarding your situation specifically a lot depends on how your wife feels. In your post you stated that she feels similarly to you. So now how to get you both out without causing a ruckus. My suggestion: Since you are unbaptized (I believe you said unbaptized publisher which means you're very close to baptism), you can still pull the 'I've got extra work lately' and begin to cancel your bible study once in awhile. Yes, unfortunately fading from the witnesses takes time, but if you don't want to lose your relatives association it may be your only choice. Begin to be busy with work, or perhaps ill. You may even consider stating that after your study in the current publication finishes, before you start the next, that you and your wife decided to study the next publication together as a couple (you know to get closer to one another and really build each other up). If you're convincing enough they'll buy it. That way you only have to worry about starting to miss some meetings and slowing down in service.
Frankly there is no way to easily and painlessly leave the witnesses and maintain witness friendships even with relatives. It takes a lot of work and effort. Also, you may find that by looking over some really unbiased sources that some of the unique truths the witnesses have are either not unique or always truthful. It hurts to have your eyes opened but it's well worth it.
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rebel8
the elders have said to my sister-in-law that they can't take disfellowshipping action if the adultress refuses to meet with them
Sounds like a lie to me. I don?t see anything in the Elder?s handbook that says DFing cannot take place?or maybe the procedure is supposed to be to consider her as DAd because she refused to comply with the directive to meet w/the Elders?
I'd like to let them know what my issues are and simply stop going to meetings. This however would have an adverse effect on my wife
That is a valid concern. You would need to weigh your desire to speak your mind (to people who won?t listen anyway) vs. your wife?s feelings. My vote would be to stop attending meetings and just say you are no longer interested in studying. They will try to extract a reason from you. Don?t give one; just say, ?I don?t care to discuss this topic with you any longer. Thank you for your time, and best wishes to you.? Repeat as necessary.Tim McGraw had a song that mentioned how roads lead to drugs or Jesus
I don?t know the song, but I do know there are many other roads that lead to neither of those things. There are many roads to happiness.Is it even possible for ex-JWs to go to a regular church after all the Bible 'training' we've had?
My advice: Take a break from religion right now. Sort through all the issues caused by your JW study. Research when you?re ready. You can worship God on your own if you want to. If and when you want to pursue a different religion, you will be better able to take it in moderation. Normal religions are not destructive. It should be an uplifting experience for you, but not one that is depressing, demanding, and controlling?.nor should it consume your entire life from dawn to dusk. -
melmac
My advice: Take a break from religion right now. Sort through all the issues caused by your JW study. Research when you?re ready. You can worship God on your own if you want to. If and when you want to pursue a different religion, you will be better able to take it in moderation. Normal religions are not destructive. It should be an uplifting experience for you, but not one that is depressing, demanding, and controlling?.nor should it consume your entire life from dawn to dusk.
Very good advice!