2 Witnesses

by viewaskew 8 Replies latest jw experiences

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  viewaskew

  I'm still technically an unbaptised publisher... I'm glad I came to my recent revelations before baptism. Anyway, basically I was stumbled by recent events in our Hall... a respected Pioneer sister tried to seduce my sister-in-law's husband. And when that didn't work she went after another friend's husband. However since there were not 2 witnesses, nothing was done. Our family was told to keep quiet, and I was even warned that judicial action could be taken if they engaged in gossip. Later, the sister mentioned above pretty much ran way with her friend's husband, both baptised Witnesses. there was still no action taken, no announcement made. The people in the Hall obviously wanted to know what had happened, and so the situation was talked about. The 'local needs' talk that week was about gossip, and it was scathing, about how some in the past were stoned for gossip, blah, blah, blah. Nothing has ever been said about this sister and brother who are currently living in sin and going through divorces. Privately, the elders have said to my sister-in-law that they can't take disfellowshipping action if the adultress refuses to meet with them. Taken on its own merits, this situation is bad enough, but when I think of how the elders probably act similarly if allegations of child abuse were raised, it is frightening and disgusting. That concern is what caused me to step back, and seek some real truth.
  

  So I read Crisis of Conscience last week, and was fascinated and disturbed, like many on this board, to read about how their votes, many of which are apparently not based on the 'bible-trained conscience', have ruined thousands of lives and continue to do so.

  My issue now, and the reason for my posting here, is that I don't know how to proceed. Obviously, I'd like to let them know what my issues are and simply stop going to meetings. This however would have an adverse effect on my wife, who is babtised, and was previously disfellowshipped. That experience nearly killed her and I don't want to risk it happening again. Also, I kind of like the in-laws and I'm not looking forward to being tarnished with the apostate brush. My wife has a 10-year-old niece who is baptised, and I'm guessing she has some difficult years ahead. I'd like us to have an opportunity to be there for her and not be isolated from the family again. Going to the ocassional meeting isn't easy but I could probably tolerate it. However, I'm not done with my Bible study... we have 3 chapters left in the Knowledge book, and they (an elder and his wife) want to study the Worship God book with us next. That, I'm not sure I can tolerate. Is there any way of ending this without being looked upon as one who is rejecting the truth? I feel I'm compromising my conscience by pretending, but I don't know how to leave without damaging the familial relationship, and possibly my marriage. My wife has asked me not to be truthful if I do end the study, because she knows she would come under inspection, and frankly she's thinking similarly, knowing that the organization is not after all under Jehovah's direction.

  In adition to advice on whether I should end the study and how to do so, I don't know where to go from here. I do feel there's a 'god-shaped hole,' that ignorance is bliss. But now I'm faced with some harsh realities. Tim McGraw had a song that mentioned how roads lead to drugs or Jesus, and I'm pretty much in agreement. I've been drinking too much in recent weeks, been very depressed. I'm considering seeing a doctor for anti-depressents. I don't know if many of those reading this have been able to keep some measure of faith without the organizational mess, but if so, I'd appreciate some advice. I feel like I want to find another religious community, obviously one a little less likely to do the shunning thing. Is it even possible for ex-JWs to go to a regular church after all the Bible 'training' we've had? I don't think I can accept the Trinity or Hellfire or any of that. I'm not even sure I can accept religion at all after being told again and again that there's only one true faith. Having rejected that, what are we left with?

  Anyway, sorry I rambled so much. I've enjoyed reading this forum in recent weeks and look forward to your replies.
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  mustang

  Welcome to the board. It is too bad that you have to learn the "truth about the Troof" in the Peyton Place KH. But maybe that is for the best; and the timing was good, as you indicated.

  I have an "obtuse"/"oblique"/"tangential" suggestion. But sometimes, that is what the situation calls for.

  Develop a massive "materialism" problem: you need money REAL BAD. (Trust me, you do..)

  Take an extra job, work nights, your job just kicked into the "travel mode", anything to consume time. Go get a degree; you can study as much JW as you like but match time over at the job or school. Then start paring down the time spent @ meetings/FS/BS/KH. Do all this gradually. And above all: NEVER GET CONFRONTATIONAL & NEVER COMMIT!!!

  I know this doesn?t sound like a solution: but you are asking for a way to SLOW DOWN & STILL ?STICK AROUND?. Frankly, there is not a very good answer for that. This may be as close as it gets. Best wishes.

  Mustang
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  calamityjane

  Welcome to the forum. Since both my husband and I left together, I have no good advice, but there are many here that are in your situation, that can give you some helpful advice.

  It's not easy breaking away.

  cj
• 

  adelmaal

  I don't know if many of those reading this have been able to keep some measure of faith without the organizational mess, but if so, I'd appreciate some advice. I feel like I want to find another religious community, obviously one a little less likely to do the shunning thing. Is it even possible for ex-JWs to go to a regular church after all the Bible 'training' we've had? I don't think I can accept the Trinity or Hellfire or any of that. I'm not even sure I can accept religion at all after being told again and again that there's only one true faith. Having rejected that, what are we left with?

  I know where you are at... Allot of us go through this when we leave the org. I didn't believe any other religion had the truth after being a JW. I actually still don't believe any one religion has the truth per say. I was lost for quite some time and I just avoided religion, God and the Bible because I kept thinking all I would see was that the JWs were right and what I was doing was wrong.

  I do not feel that way anymore. Actually, the longer I am away the more I see that the Bible, in my opinion, differs from the belief system of the JWs in many ways. Personally, I find it hard to grasp the fact that I ever believed they had the truth when I read the Bible now.

  Examples:

  Bible says not to eat the blood or fat of a sacrificed animal. For some reason I thought that JWs saying you could have blood parts but not red blood cells had anything to do with what the Bible says. Not so... I don't see blood broken down into parts in the Bible, I don't see the Bible saying you cannot accept a life saving blood transfusion from a human being, I don't see the Bible saying you cannot store your own blood for future use, etc. The JWs have really stretched this belief and why do they even try to take the blood part literally when they don't even consider not eating fat? Besides, the Bible was talking about the blood of a sacrificed animal. How is that the same as the blood of a human being? How does not eating blood translate to not having a transfusion containing red blood cells? Just doesn't make sense...

  The Bible says that all should partake of the wine and bread representing Jesus' flesh and blood. All should benefit from his sacrifice. It also says this should be done until the Son of Man arrives. For some reason I thought that JWs saying that only 144,000 should partake, only 144,000 benefit from the covenant with the Christ and that Christ had somehow already come but yet they still celebrate the Memorial was truth. I don't believe they come even close to practicing what Jesus said we should practice with respect to the Memorial and his coming. It bothers me that so many JWs are actually rejecting his sacrifice and what it means for them by not partaking.

  The Bible says that Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes and yet somehow JWs justify disfellowshipping people and saying that their family members cannot even eat a meal with them. How is this scriptural? How does this coincide with Jesus being approachable to all.

  I have been reading Crisis of Conscience and it has really been helping me to see how much blood guilt that organization really has. They have messed up peoples lives so badly and yet they have made no apologies for it. They are just another manmade religion and when you can accept that then you can take what you want and leave the rest behind. This is what I do with any religion or belief system I am exposed to now. I have broken free from the mentality that I must agree with someone when it comes to what the Bible says, what God wants or what Jesus taught us.

  I think religion can be good for those who want fellowship and it can inspire you but I do not believe there is any one religion that will give you all the truth. The fact of the matter is that there are so many opinions out there that we just need to sort through them all and take what we believe to be truth. The JWs are just another religion. The only thing is they enforce the fact that you must agree with them. You must accept what they tell you as truth. It's called mind control and there are other religions that are not this way.

  I just try to read the Bible for myself now. I have a relationship with God separate from religion and I study with my children a bit each day helping them to form their own beliefs, opinions and relationship with God. I don't believe God meant for it to be complicated. There are many books such as "The Daily Book of Devotions" that can help you to get something out of the Bible each and every day and you do not need to agree with all of what they say.

  I for one do not believe the Trinity in a sense that I do not believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit need to be combined into one being in any way. I do believe they all stem from the same source though. I do not worship Jesus or the Holy Spirit as though they were the same thing as the Almighty God but I do believe they are necessary to have a relationship with God and I believe Jesus was the perfect representation of God on earth.

  I also do not believe in hellfire and I do not believe that a loving God is going to kill all those who do not agree with Jehovah's Witnesses. God is loving and merciful and his kindness is undeserved thanks to Jesus and his sacrifice. I trust that God knows who we are and he loves each and every one of is for the goodness in our hearts. How could he turn on someone wanting to worship him but not being sure how to properly do so? I don't think he will.

  I think it's possible to love God, to love your neighbor, to recognize the signifigance of Jesus's sacrifice, to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you and influence you, to be a good person and to show appreciation for God and all he has done in the way we live our lives and in how raise our families. I do not believe religion is necessary to do so. There are many experiences in the Bible where God's followers had a relationship with him separate from religion.

  Ok... Off my soap box now. Hang in there and you will eventually see that there is spirituality and truth separate from JWs. It's a much more loving existence separate from all their rules, judgements and mind control.

  This however would have an adverse effect on my wife, who is babtised, and was previously disfellowshipped. That experience nearly killed her and I don't want to risk it happening again. Also, I kind of like the in-laws and I'm not looking forward to being tarnished with the apostate brush. My wife has a 10-year-old niece who is baptised, and I'm guessing she has some difficult years ahead. I'd like us to have an opportunity to be there for her and not be isolated from the family again. Going to the ocassional meeting isn't easy but I could probably tolerate it. However, I'm not done with my Bible study... we have 3 chapters left in the Knowledge book, and they (an elder and his wife) want to study the Worship God book with us next. That, I'm not sure I can tolerate. Is there any way of ending this without being looked upon as one who is rejecting the truth? I feel I'm compromising my conscience by pretending, but I don't know how to leave without damaging the familial relationship, and possibly my marriage. My wife has asked me not to be truthful if I do end the study, because she knows she would come under inspection, and frankly she's thinking similarly, knowing that the organization is not after all under Jehovah's direction.

  Personally, I do not see a need for you to share anything you are feeling with the elders or the other brothers and sisters. If you wish to discontinue your study it does not mean you need to provide a reason for doing so. All you need to do is let them know you would prefer not to continue studying. You can continue going if you like and there is no reason you need to justify your lack of study with anyone. You do not need to voice your disagreement with teachings. Take what you agree with and ignore the rest. I know it's hard but for your wife's sake it sounds like you can do that. You are not baptized and you are not required to be. Your relationship with God is your personal business. You are doing your wife a favor by not getting baptized if you do not agree with their teachings. Much better for her to be with you as a worldy person associating than to be with a baptized apostate who leaves. Sticking around will allow you to gradually reason with your wife and maybe she will eventually decide she no longer believes they are teaching the truth either.
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  AuntieJane

  What a mess...and this is supposed to be God's organization? P.U. something doesn't smell right here. Good for you for coming to this board, I think you will find lots of information and healing here. Since you are head of the household, I would encourage your wife to join you in stepping back for awhile, any excuses you can come up with if that is how you have to handle it at first. Educate her to this board if you can, or at least print out some information since she has doubts too.

  I feel that you do want God in your life, that you do know the benefits of worshipping with others, but the WTS has done a job with your head on all that Trinity stuff, etc. I would encourage you to find a compassionate minister you can sit down with and just have a visit with. You don't have to believe in the Trinity, etc...but...find some places you can visit and feel a true spirituality.

  Good luck, I can't imagine what you must be going through.
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  Bryan

  Welcome viewaskew,

  You have already received great info from those in your position. I will say hello and let you get your help.

  Bryan

  have You Seen My Mother
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  Balsam

  First of all Elder are lying when they say they can't disfellowship witnesses if they don't go to the Judical committee meetings. Both my sons were disfellowshipped without either of them ever going before the Elders or Judical committee. My 17 year old was disf'ed without even a reason being given.

  As for quiting your bible study, just get too busy to be there. Take college classes, and tell them nothing except you have to work or go to school or something. How is your wife with the information in Crisis of Conscious, or has she read it? There has been good suggestions above.

  You don't owe the the JW any explaination. Let them wonder why you don't go to all the meetings all the time or have quit being available for bible studies. The less you say the better, unless you can help your wife leave it behind.

  Ruth
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  viewaskew

  Firstly, sorry I posted this twice. tried to fix the formating using the back key. Wont make that mistake again. I appreciate all the comments. Mustang, I'm lazy, I don't want another job and I ain't a good studier but I shall heed the NEVER GET CONFRONTATIONAL & NEVER COMMIT! advice :)
  
  Adelmaal, I'm glad to read there's hope of a new understanding of the Bible. I already had a problem with their ignoring most of what Christ stood for and always harking on about the preaching thing. Just the fact that I can now consider other beliefs, read books by 'Christendom's' writers, is such a relief. Thanks also for your reasonable suggestions regarding ending the study. I hope to do so that way. My wife is already 'out' mentally... she wants to keep going so she can preserve some kind of relationship with her family.
  
  Auntiejane, you are correct, I do want God in my life, and I do want the community aspect too. My wife and I live an isolated life, one of the reasons we were drawn to the WTS bull in the first place. The first step is the hardest, not knowing what kind of service or reaction awaits in each mysterious church building.
  
  Hello Bryan.
  
  Ruth, I figured they were lying. For some reason, this particular sister seems to have had preferential treatment. When the elders heard about my wife's supposed wrongdoing they arranged the judicial meeting immediately. Weeks went by without action after they learned of this sisters repeated transgressions. Then she abandons her husband and friends and all the elders do is council those left behind not to talk about it. My wife agrees with me that the organization is dangerous and controlling... I think she's scared to think too badly of the religion/cult because her family is heavily involved... she says she doesn't want to read these boards or Franz's book because she doesn't want to get bitter. I like the no explanation idea. I didn't want to lie and I don't want to confront them (I know how useless it would be especially with this guy, even the regular witnesses think he's a freak!) so that's the easiest solution. I can use the work schedule excuse.
  
  From the duplicated topic, Link, I'm trying not to attract too much attention. Fading seems like a much better option, because I already know that simply by mentioning secular material, I'll be labeled apostate. This particular congregation seems a little more strict than most.
  
  u/d, I know. Drama after drama. It's like there's a line of disfellowshipped people and sad stories behind them all. Most of the congregation are on antidepressents, the meetings are just one guiltrip after another... it's just so lacking in any kind of joy. I'm glad I got out when I did.
  
  Check_Your_Premises, I think I've read most of the refutations, and I don't agree with most of the JW doctrine. Maybe further education will change my opinion, but my major issues are that I can't believe in a loving God and Hell (just like I can't believe in a loving God destroying 99.9% of humanity), and from a study of the Bible (not the NWT), I find arguments in favor of the Trinity unconvincing. About it being a cult... I admire Ray Franz, he's been to the very core of this thing and I respect his judgement. I think that the men on the governing body are misguided, that they think too highly of themselves and endanger their 'flock.' I think that the language used in their publications is manipulative, intentional or not. When I think of a cult, I think Waco or Heaven's Gate. I haven't gotten to the point where I view the WTS that way. They are simply wrong, and it has tragic reprucussions for many individuals and families who put their trust in them. I appreciate the site references. I'm not sure I had faith to keep intact... the problem with brainwashing is that it's the thoughts of others being inflicted on your mind, it's not self-motivated. So when I left, I had no faith. I have yet to find it.
  
  Thanks again to all who replied, I mostly wanted advice on how to handle the study and reassurances that I'm taking the right step. The images of the WTS are very enticing and sometimes it's hard to remember that leaving is the right decision. But now I know what to do, so thanks.
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  Survive1999

  As far as the disfellowship goes I can offer no help.

  If ya see the light move toward it, staying in an environment like that will definately mess up your mind.

  One scripture comes to mind to me.

  I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the father but through me.

  To me that scripture sums up pretty much every thing you need to know about the Christain religion and the focus you should have. Focus on your relationship to Jesus, the rest is dross.