My sister is down and out... (page 2)

DanTheMan

Thanks Morty, I talked with my sister on IM today and she seemed to be doing better. I do get to spend a fair amount of time with my nephew, but whenever I've tried to talk religion to him or draw comparisons between Pentecostalism and JWism, a wall goes up and he just refuses to speak and if you persist he leaves the room. So I just try to have fun with him, anything I can do so that he keeps an open mind and doesn't become a fundy mental shut-down.

adelmaal

I am so sorry big dog. My heart aches for you, your nephew and your sister... In all seriousness, can she afford an attorney who can prove parental alienation before it's too late? Being the mom of a daughter who is being indoctrinated by her JW dad my tears, hugs and thoughts go out to her.

(((HUGS)))

I do remember my therapist telling me that she told her son he could come back once. He did eventually decide he wanted to go live with his dad and that lasted a few years. She said she was heart broken but he always knew he could come back if he wanted to (but only once). He did eventually come back and stayed for good until he finally moved out. Hopefully, your sister will be able to protect him as long as she can and then let him go knowing that she loves him and he can come back if he chooses.

Side Note: I am Republican BTW and don't know why you added that tidbit Ouch!

DanTheMan

can she afford an attorney who can prove parental alienation before it's too late?

I don't know, "parental alienation" sounds like a pretty strong charge, I don't know if she could succeed at something like that. She is going to court to try to get more weekend custody of him, because his dad gets him on Wednesday night, then on Friday night through Monday morning, so right now she only gets to see him after school on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. And so my nephews dad is all freaked out about it, and telling him that she is trying to take him away from him, et c.

Side Note: I am Republican BTW and don't know why you added that tidbit Ouch!

Hmm, things might be a little different out there in Ahhnold-land, but here in Ohio churchy white evangelical borg christians like my nephew's father number in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, and they make me want to fucking puke, and they all looooooove Bush.

Dan, multiple-post-editor class

adelmaal

churchy white evangelical borg christians

Must be different out here cause none of the right-wingers I know are like that...

Anywho... I don't know if the guy below could help her but he might be worth a call. It sounds like his dad's beliefs have similar harmful affects as those of JWs. Duane Magnani does not charge for consulation and he spoke with me at great length. He assists attorneys in all the various states with custody matters related to religion. If their beliefs serve to alienate your nephew not only from his mom but also from the rest of his extended family and society as a whole then the courts will take that into consideration. They want the child to be with the parent that encourages a healthy relationship with the other parent and it sounds to me like his dad is not doing that if the son is telling his mom he hates her.

DanTheMan

Thanks for the link Adelmaal, I'll run some of this by my sister. This "parental alienation" thing you speak of might be an avenue she could pursue that she is not aware of.

She has never been a religious fundy of any sort, and therefore wasn't really worried that much (at first) about my nephew's involvement with his dad's church, but between me leaving the JW's and with the obvious brainwashing her son is getting, she's really had her eyes open as to what bad religion is all about, poor girl.

adelmaal

It's a good thing she has you to show her just how controlling cults can be. It's certainly real and the reality of it is her son could choose that religion over his own flesh and blood.

The dad going into a new religion definitely gives her grounds to bring a modification to the custody/visitation order. It is considered a "change in circumstances", which in California constitutes grounds for revisiting custody. Don't know if it's the same in your area.

ESTEE

The sad thing is that my nephew is *totally* buying the religion

(((Dan)))

I'm so sorry to hear that your nephew is getting caught in that cult. My current boyfriend lost his wife that way. They are now divorced. His ex totally let herself be assimilated by the born-again pentecostals. Her entire personality changed. She became a stranger in their marriage, and he eventually left the marriage. Seems that's how cults operate, though. They keep their flock so busy that they have no time to think about what they look like to anyone outside the religion. I remember how I became assimilated with the jw's ... this is one of the ways cults operate, sadly. That cult keeps the children feeling all included and busy -- and brainwashed -- as well. Churches know that the children are their future, and that is why they give lots of attention to the children. Anything your sister might attempt now might be viewed as "persecution" much like the dubs do. Your nephew appears to desire structure in his life that his mom, who worked fulltime was unable to provide.

I don't think there is anything your sister can do right now, except be there for her son when the cracks start showing. She might want to get some therapy to help her through the initial shock and help her to carry on with her own life in a healthy and respectful manner. By respect, I mean that if she tries to help or rescue her son, it may not be viewed as help, but as interference. It would only further alienate her from her son. So, again, it is up to her to maintain her respect and her health. She will learn new, healthy coping skills aside from drama. Therapy would help your nephew see that mom has stability and structure, and he will begin to trust her again. Hopefully born-agains do not shun as viciously as the dubs do. So likely she still has some chance at a partial relationship with him, I suspect.

Keep us posted, Dan. She is certainly blessed to have such a caring brother as you in her life.

((((Love and hugs to you and your sister))))

ESTEE

DanTheMan

Hi Estee,

Sorry, I didn't notice that you had posted to my thread.

They keep their flock so busy that they have no time to think about what they look like to anyone outside the religion

Ain't that the truth. And these Pentecostal religio-nazis are so arrogant and elitist that they don't really care. After all, we're the ones that are going to get "Left Behind" come rapture time.

Anything your sister might attempt now might be viewed as "persecution" much like the dubs do

Oh yes, it's just like the dubs. My nephew told my sister "You hate Pentecostals don't you?!" How f'n JW-ish can you get. Here's a religious group that is expecting the rapture to come along anytime now and take all the good little brainwashed christians to heaven while the rest of us suffer 7 years of torments and then get thrown into hell if we don't repent, and then they get all teary and cry foul when you object to this cult indoctrination. Of course we hate your stupid fucking religion!

DanTheMan

UPDATE

A few things have happened since I first posted this thread. At one point it started looking like things were going to go my sister's way a little bit. There was a court hearing, and the judge outlined a few things that he said he would stipulate were he forced to write up the custody agreement himself. Most of it is very detailed and not worth mentioning, but one of the arrangements he said he would change would be giving my sister custody of my nephew for one weekend a month. But he left it up to my sister, her ex, and their respective lawyers to try to come up with an agreement satisfactory to both parties, to be presented to him at a later time.

While it wasn't all my sister had hoped for, she was somewhat happy with his recommendations as we thought it would be nice for my nephew to have one weekend a month where he could socialize with his school friends instead of being with his dad who lives out in a rural area, not only that but their church is much like JWism in it's disapproval of worldly associates so lord knows my nephew would never ask his dad for permission to hang out with his school friends.

Thursday there was a meeting with the lawyers and my nephew's court-appointed guardian ad litem. And we are stunned at his recommendations.

First, some background: my nephew attends Bexley High School in Bexley Ohio, a city which has the second-highest ranked public school system in the entire state. He is in advanced algebra and science classes there, and he also plays the trumpet in the marching band. But, he *claims* not to have friends there, and that he doesn't fit in, and that there's too many other kids for him to be able to try out for sports, etc. Which is not true, the coach of the soccer team was practically begging him to play! This is apparently what he has told the guardian ad litem. He has *never* told us this. Knowing the dynamics of his relationship with his dad, I am certain that these things he told to his guardian ad litem were parroted. And I'm certain he was sat down by his dad and asked exactly how his meeting with the g.a.l. went and what exactly was said. Because they're so desperate to save his soul from his secular mom and stepdad.

So, apparently in this meeting, the guardian ad litem recommended that my nephew be taken out of Bexley High School and enrolled in Madison Christian School. Madison Christian School is a podunk, fundy Christian K-12 school with a whopping enrollment of 500 students. No band, no AP or Honors classes. Just a good solid Biblical Christian education. Not only that, but it's not close to where my sister lives now, and we have no idea how they expect for us to transport him.

WHAT the HELL is this guy THINKING?

I am in shock over all this. It's like, once again, my bully-boy ex-brother-in-law gets his way. It's surreal.

AlmostAtheist

I don't know what to say, Dan. I'm sorry things are working out this way. I hope it's not a done deal, that these "recommendations" are not going to just be put in force.

As he gets older, he at least has his sister and you to look at and recognize that not all decent people are in his church. Maybe he'll wake up to it and get his feet under him when he's 20.

How bad is this outfit? Will it attempt to cripple his hopes for a career by talking him out of college? (The lack of honors classes won't help, but it wouldn't be an insurmountable hurdle)

Dave

My sister is down and out...

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