Contradictions and NWT (page 2)

googlemagoogle

don't list too much, cheeseman... and DON'T use the "can god be seen" one. they'll say it was an angel representing god.

"The sins of the father" is very good. because it's a clear contradiction. also to the paradigm of a just and loving god. stick to only that to show the bible contradicts. there is no answer to that so far, afaik. and there are plenty of texts that support it, you'll find a list on the skeptic's annotated bible.

the only thing they can respond is, "we'll have to do some research on this and explain it to you next time". but next time you can show them another contradiction.

don't bombard them with bible verses, it would be too much for them.

robhic

Save yourself a lot of trouble and just show them some of these:

http://quotes.watchtower.ca/bible_errors.htm

They're from "Quotes'" site and it is priceless. Who said the bible contains no errors.....?

observador

Hello Cheeseman,

I have the opinion that the Biblie do have contradictions. Believers, however, will always find a way to explain them away. If you really want to try the contradiction line with JWs, try to use those in the gospels. The gospels are wonderful for this because they are parallel reports of the same event.

These are some of the recent ones poped up in this board:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/84180/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/87531/1.ashx

Observador.

peacefulpete

Here's a good one that will get their attention if you pose it sincerely. Did Jesus meet them in Galilee? Contradiction They will attempt to refute it until they eventually just claim that there must be an answer and they will get back to you.

Ianone

Show them the contradictions between their own 2 bibles the New World Translation and the Kingdom Interlinear Translation

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/86971/1.ashx

googlemagoogle

yeah, from the gospels:
- on which day did jesus die (john vs. synoptics)
- which year was jesus born (luke vs. luke vs. matthew)

BluesBrother

I have to agree with the posters who said that the 'contradictions ' on minor points are not likely to throw your average dub, they are used to such things and they can often be reconciled if one knows the context and background to the scripture

Personally I am not against the scriptures but I do now take exception to the literal understanding that they place on texts that are more likely to be allogorical or object lessons. I would establish a common ground and they will agree that Jehovah is a loving god who would always act for mans good and in consistancy with his standards.

Perhaps a consideration of some examples, eg Noahs drunkenness, Lot's incest with his daughters, the whole life course of Samson, the two she-bears being used by Elisha to slaughter 42 children. These are difficult to reconcile, Also most of all the WT teaching of the proposed mass genocide of the rest of mankind who fail to take refuge with the WT Society ... Is it logical, is it reasonable to believe that a God of love could do such a thing??

They will probably make an excuse to leave, labelling you as softie who has no stomach for "Gods discipline" , but at least you tried..

Narkissos

I think most of the Bible inner contradictions too obvious to be affected by translation -- although the NWT, as other confessional versions, tries to smooth out the contradictions as much as possible (and sometimes a little more).

One example in Genesis 2:19. Where the NRSV clearly shows the implication of the Hebrew text, that in the second creation story animals are created after man:

So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

the NWT tones down the narrative sequence by changing the tense of the verb, implying that the creation of animals was a continuing process which could have begun before (which the Hebrew text doesn't allow):

Now Jehovah God was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call it, each living soul, that was its name.

But here the NWT is not alone. The Evangelical NIV, for instance, is even worse:

Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

More generally, one might consider the beliefs common to JWs and others (such as, from the broader to the narrower, belief in God, in Jesus, in the Bible, in the Protestant Canon, in the inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture) as a series of outer screens, or bulwarks, in their defense system. When you attack those they don't feel really threatened as they know there are a lot of people besides them to defend those outer fortifications. In their eyes you just appear as an unbeliever, very far from the truth and from the heart of their own belief system. So it probably won't convince them, unless they have secretly begun doubting the whole construction.

JW4Life

BluesBrother was basically saying that when such scriptures as the ones that spoke about: "Noahs drunkenness, Lot's incest with his daughters, the whole life course of Samson, the two she-bears being used by Elisha to slaughter 42 children." to be considered object lessons. May I ask who made you the authority to decide that when certain things written in the Bible that dont fallow your idea of who God is should be thought of as an object lesson? Who decides what is literal and what is not literal in the Bible. Each reader decides from themselves what is literal. In my opinion the whole Bible should be read in a literal light unless it (the Bible) explicitly says this situation is an object lesson and only for teaching a lesson. or that the writer was speaking from what he saw in vision and should not be thought of as literal. When I said in a literal light I meant that when you read your Bible take its meaning for what it said. God is love whether He kills people or not.

ohiocowboy

Here is another that I find interesting. It is the account of Cain and Abel. Supposedly, Adam, Eve, and their children were supposed to be the only ones living on earth, as Adam and Eve were the first created by God. But, after Cain kills abel, and is sent as a fugitive in the earth, Cain is afraid that he will get killed by other people on the earth, so God puts a mark on Cain's forehead, so that the others on the earth will not kill him....So, evidently, they must not have been the first and only family on earth...

Genesis chapter 4:

4

Now Adam had intercourse with Eve his wife and she became pregnant. In time she gave birth to Cain and said: "I have produced a man with the aid of Jehovah." 2 Later she again gave birth, to his brother Abel.

And Abel came to be a herder of sheep, but Cain became a cultivator of the ground. 3 And it came about at the expiration of some time that Cain proceeded to bring some fruits of the ground as an offering to Jehovah. 4 But as for Abel, he too brought some firstlings of his flock, even their fatty pieces. Now while Jehovah was looking with favor upon Abel and his offering, 5 he did not look with any favor upon Cain and upon his offering. And Cain grew hot with great anger, and his countenance began to fall. 6 At this Jehovah said to Cain: "Why are you hot with anger and why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you turn to doing good, will there not be an exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get the mastery over it?"

8

After that Cain said to Abel his brother: ["Let us go over into the field."] So it came about that while they were in the field Cain proceeded to assault Abel his brother and kill him. 9 Later on Jehovah said to Cain: "Where is Abel your brother?" and he said: "I do not know. Am I my brother?s guardian?" 10 At this he said: "What have you done? Listen! Your brother?s blood is crying out to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed in banishment from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother?s blood at your hand. 12 When you cultivate the ground, it will not give you back its power. A wanderer and a fugitive you will become in the earth." 13 At this Cain said to Jehovah: "My punishment for error is too great to carry. 14 Here you are actually driving me this day from off the surface of the ground, and from your face I shall be concealed; and I must become a wanderer and fugitive on the earth, and it is certain that anyone finding me will kill me." 15 At this Jehovah said to him: "For that reason anyone killing Cain must suffer vengeance seven times."

And so Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him should strike him. 16 With that Cain went away from the face of Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Fugitiveness to the east of E´den.

Contradictions and NWT

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