Jesus Completely Fullfilled the 70th Week

by Ianone 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    My computer just crashed and I lost a very lengthy response which I will not try to reconstruct, so I apologize if my response is very short.

    If Jesus sacrifice is not the New Covenant, than what is the New Coveant that Jeremiah and Isaiah spoke of?

    You misunderstand me. I did not say that there isn't a New Covenant involving Jesus' sacrifice (as per Paul and others). What I was saying was that the "covenant" referred to in Daniel 9:27 is the covenant or agreement that Antiochus IV made with the Hellenizers, which is mentioned later in ch. 11 and in 1 Maccabees. Just because the word "covenant" occurs in a given text doesn't mean it necessarily refers to God's covenant with Israel. The word simply refers to a legally-binding agreement. In fact, in ch. 11 God's covenant is referred to as the "holy covenant". The covenant that Antiochus made with the Hellenizers is in a sense a blasphemous covenant substituting for God's covenant, as its whole purpose is to force Jews to break the holy covenant. Such actions by Antiochus are part of the reason why the author of Daniel described him as magnifying himself greater than the God of gods. He dared to replace God's covenant with his own.

    Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus and his armies in 70ad, a historical fact. Why would the bible leave out such a disastrous event for God's land if Daniel 9:26 is not speaking of Titus and the Jerusalem destruction??

    Jerusalem was also attacked by Antiochus' army, people massacred, and the Temple defiled and plundered, a historical fact. It is this event that Daniel is referring to. This is made crystal clear by ch. 11, which describes the whole career of Antiochus Epiphanes and what he did to the Jews and to the Temple.

    Jerusalem was also attacked by Titus in AD 70, it was even more brutally attacked by Hadrian in the 130s (razed to the ground and turned into a Roman city), it was attacked by the Persians in 614 and by the Arabs in 638, and the scene of Crusader battles in 1077, 1099, 1187, it was sacked in 1244 and 1259 by the Turks and Mongols respectively, and so on. It has seen many battles and wars over the years. But the one that is before the mind of the author of Daniel is the campaign of Antiochus Epiphanes. Chapter 11 leaves no doubt about this because it describes what Antiochus did in minute detail.

    also who is the HE that sends the PRINCE to destroy? if the Prince is the antichrist, than who is the HE? If the HE is the antichrist, than who is the PRINCE?

    The text is corrupt here, as in many other places. This is obvious from the fact alone that the anointed one who is destroyed (i.e. Onias III) cannot be the same person who then attacks Jerusalem. R. H. Charles suggested that the MT yshchyt "shall destroy" should be amended to yshcht "shall be destroyed" so that the passage would read (with the LXX-Theodotion): "The city and the sanctuary shall be destroyed, together with a prince, and his end shall come (kai exei he sunteleia autou)". The original version of the LXX (the Old Greek) had: "A king of Gentiles will destroy the city and the sanctuary, with the anointed one". If the reference is to Onias III, this fits very well with history in that Onias III was murdered in the same year as Antiochus' first attack on Jerusalem, in which he plundered the Temple and massacred many Jews (cf. Daniel 8:9-10, 11:28; 1 Maccabees 1:21-28). On the other hand, most translations favor the MT, e.g. the critical version by Collins: "The host of a ruler who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary". This reading would also refer to the same series of events -- the attack on Jerusalem by Antiochus' army in 171 BC (which was the beginning of the 70th week in Daniel's chronological scheme), and the even worse attack of 169 BC during which Antiochus "plundered the city, burned it with fire, and tore down its houses and its surrounding walls" (1 Maccabees 1:31).

    If Daniel's Seventieth Week is not about Jesus, than who is the Messiah spoken of in:

    Septuagint Daniel 9:25 And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the rebuilding of Jerusalem until Messiah the prince there shall be seven weeks

    Bear in mind that this first anointed one is placed at the end of the first 7 weeks, and there are 62 weeks separating him and the last week. It is thus impossible that he is the same person as the anointed one that is cut off in v. 26. It is often suggested that this first "anointed prince" is Cyrus, for in Isaiah 45:1 Yahweh refers to him as "my anointed". But this is unlikely in the case of Daniel, which instead has Babylon falling to the historically unknown Darius the Mede with "Cyrus the Persian" not showing up some time later. Neither does Daniel refer to Darius as an "anointed". I think the best explanation is that the term refers to a High Priest, as it does in v. 26 (cf. Leviticus 4:3, 5, 16, 6:22, 2 Maccabees 1:10; Testament of Levi 16:1-4 which refer to the High Priest as "anointed"). The first 7 weeks would thus come to a close with the restoration of worship under Joshua, son of Jozadak (Ezra 3:2), the first High Priest after the return from exile (cf. Haggai 1:1; Zechariah 3:1).

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    Ianone,

    Matt.23:38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;.....This does not sound like Jesus is about to enter into an agreement/contract/covenant with Israel at all. And we know that Jesus' death was an agreement that he had with the Father, not us. I think we are looking for a new agreement between God and Israel. (be they natural and/or spiritual)The paradise waited for will not come about before Israel signs an agreement with the antichrist, its broken, and the second half (31/2) years of the trib. are over.(one week)

    michelle

  • Ianone
    Ianone

    I understand what you are saying leo but I dont agree. With all the things that went on in Israel, you could read anything into the Daniel text.

    also who is the HE that sends the PRINCE to destroy? if the Prince is the antichrist, than who is the HE? If the HE is the antichrist, than who is the PRINCE?

    The text is corrupt here, as in many other places. This is obvious from the fact alone that the anointed one who is destroyed (i.e. Onias III) cannot be the same person who then attacks Jerusalem. R. H. Charles suggested that the MT yshchyt "shall destroy" should be amended to yshcht "shall be destroyed" so that the passage would read (with the LXX-Theodotion): "The city and the sanctuary shall be destroyed, together with a prince, and his end shall come (kai exei he sunteleia autou)". The original version of the LXX (the Old Greek) had: "A king of Gentiles will destroy the city and the sanctuary, with the anointed one".

    I did use the LXX here. I will post it again.

    Septuagint Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

    Again my question, who is the HE that that sends the Prince to destroy?

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    Septuagint Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

    and he(antichrist) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince(satan/pr.of greece) that is coming:

    maybe this helps?

    michelle

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    I understand what you are saying leo but I dont agree. With all the things that went on in Israel, you could read anything into the Daniel text.

    Because the original expectations of Daniel did not come to pass, people have tried for hundreds of years to read contemporary events into Daniel. In each case (such as the WTS' attempt to read the Cold War into the conflict of the king of the north and the king of the south), the application fails because historical events cannot be stretched far enough to fit every detail in the great vision (ch. 11-12), or even most of the details. As scholars generally recognize, the details of ch. 11 fit the events of the Seleucid-Ptolemy era perfectly, and the writer himself identified this era as the relevant one by starting off with Alexander the Great's defeat of the Persians (11:2-3), and the division of his kingdom between his four generals (11:4). That fixes the historical context of the vision. From there it is a simple matter of following the progression of Seleucid-Ptolemy history, which fits the description in 11:5-20 like a glove, until you come to Antiochus IV Epiphanes in v. 21 who did exactly the things described in v. 22-39. It is at this point that the startling accuracy of the author dissolves. This is not because the author suddenly is talking about the far distant future thousands of years later, as some end-times prognosticators believe, but it is simply because it is at this point that the author is now making genuine prophecy about the future death of Antiochus rather than describing the recent past. That Antiochus was the king described in Daniel was clear even to Josephus who believed that everything in the vision would be completed in his own day. He said that the prophet Daniel declared that "there should arise a certain king that should overcome our nation and their laws, and should take away their political government, and should spoil the temple, and forbid the sacrifices to be offered for three years' time. And indeed it so came to pass, that our nation suffered these things under Antiochus Epiphanes, according to Daniel's vision" (Antiquities, 10.11.7). Chapter 11 of Daniel is the text that very clearly establishes this. Of course, if you are unfamiliar with Seleucid history as you probably are, this will not be apparent as it is to those who know how well this chapter matches with history.

    I did use the LXX here. I will post it again. "Septuagint Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations." Again my question, who is the HE that that sends the Prince to destroy?

    And to reiterate my original point, the text here is clearly corrupt. It would be worthwhile to ask how later Jews and Christians interpreted the Greek text, but it is nonsensical to ask who the author of Daniel intended the "he" to refer to if this is not what originally written. The act of translation is an interpretive process, it simply isn't copying what had preceded, and in the case of Daniel 9:26, we likely don't even have the verse preserved at all in its original language. The Hebrew MT (from which the Greek versions were produced) appears to be a translation from the original Aramaic, and the Greek versions are basically translations of a translation. And you are probably not aware that what you are quoting as the Septuagint isn't even the original Septuagint, for there were two Greek versions produced, and your LXX is the version of Theodotion, whereas the original "Old Greek" version has quite a different wording:

    OG: kai basileia ethnón phtherei tén polin kai to hagion meta tou khristou "And the Gentile king shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the anointed one"
    Theodotion: kai tén polin kai to hagion diaphtherei sun tói hégoumenói tói erkhomenói "And he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming governing one"

    The Theodotion version (which is the version you quoted) is confused because diaphtherei "he shall destroy" has no subject and thus depends on the chrisma "anointed one" in v. 25, who was destroyed, as the subject of the sentence. In other words, the anointed one who was destroyed is suddenly now the one who is destroying Jerusalem. The original LXX however does have a subject for phtherei "he shall destroy", namely basileia ethnon "the Gentile king". Thus, for the Old Greek version, the "he" assumed by this verse is the Gentile king, e.g. Antiochus. In neither text is "he" or the "Gentile king" described as sending the "coming governing one" or the "anointed one", as you say. Rather, this figure either accompanies the destruction of the city (e.g. this figure is destroyed along with the sanctuary and the city) or accompanies the one destroying the city (e.g. participating in the city's destruction). The text is ambiguous, and thus some have interpreted the text as referring either to Onias III (who was assassinated in the same year as Antiochus' general attacked Jerusalem) or to the general of the Syrian army who led the assault.

    However, this is assuming that the original text resembled either Greek version. The Hebrew text (as attested in the MT and supported by the Greek version of Aquila (c. AD 140), and the Latin Vulgate, as translated by Jerome from the pre-MT text) is somewhat different:

    MT: w-h'yr w-hqdsh yshchyt 'm ngyd hb' "And the people of a prince that shall come will destroy the city and the sanctuary".
    Aquila: kai tén polin kai to hagion diaphtherei laos hégoumenou erkhomenou "And the people of the coming governing one will destroy the city and the sanctuary".
    Vulgate: et civitatem et sanctuarium dissipabit populus cum duce venturo "And a people with a leader who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary".

    It can be seen that Theodotion here follows the MT word order (e.g. and city-and-sanctuary he-will-destroy with prince-coming) and renders ngyd hb' pretty faithfully as "prince that is coming". However, the main problem is the rendering of Hebrew 'm. In the MT, 'm "people" is the subject of the verb yshchyt "he will destroy" and Jerome (ca. AD 400) similarly based his Latin populus "people" (in the nominative, as it is the subject of dissipabit) on 'm "people" in his Hebrew text. Similarly, the laos "people" of Aquila's Greek version reflects an underlying 'm "people"; note also the genitive case used for the "coming governing one".

    But here is the interesting thing: 'm as it is vocalized in the MT is 'am "people", but the consonantal 'm is actually a homonym between 'am "people" and 'im "with, equally with". Obviously, this linguistic peculiarity of Hebrew is the reason why the MT and Aquila differ so much from the Old Greek and Theodotion versions. If 'am "people" was the original word, then 'm ngyd hb' would be "people of a coming prince", whereas if 'im was the original word, then 'm ngyd hb' would be "with a coming prince". If the two LXX versions reflect the interpretation of an original 'm as 'im "with", this explains neatly why the Theodotion version has no subject in the sentence and must depend on the "destroyed anointed one" in the previous sentence as its subject (a rendering that makes little sense). It also neatly explains why the Old Greek version inserted basileia ethnon "Gentile king" into the text; since it had already interpreted 'm as "with" (rendered as meta "with"), and since the sentence made little sense without a subject (as does the Theodotion text), the translator invented a new subject which was consistent with the identity of the destroyer of Jerusalem in ch. 11 of Daniel. It also explains why Jerome renders the passage as populus cum duce venturo "people with a coming prince". Here, rather than choose between the two possibilities, Jerome represents both in his version by translating 'm as both populus "people" and cum "with". This seems like the most logical and simplest explanation, but there are other possibilities. As mentioned before, some have tried to amend the verb to the passive yshcht "shall be destroyed" in order to interpret 'm as "with". Either option would not have a subject-less verb as there is in Theodotion; in contrast, the Old Greek, Aquila, Jerome, the MT, the Syriac, and just about every other version has a subject in the sentence.

    I know I'm taking the long way around to answer your question, but the evidence is pretty clear that the subject-less rendering in the Theodotion version that you cited is corrupt and simply resulted by misinterpreting 'm "people" as 'm "with". I think 'm "people" is most likely more original because this word occurs elsewhere in the OT to refer to "soldiers" in an army (cf. 1 Samuel 10:13, 18:6, 1 Kings 8:44, etc.), which fits naturally in context with the reference to the attack on Jerusalem and the sanctuary in the same verse. The "he" in the English translation of Theodotion most probably results from the erroneous translation of the word for "people" as "with" -- turning the subject of the sentence into a preposition, leaving the verb without an overt subject, and necessitating the insertion of "he" in the English translation.

  • Rig Boy
    Rig Boy

    Jesus is destroyed. Crucified. But because He is risen, He can now send the destroyer: Titus and the soldiers.

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