help me understand the political dynamics of the kh heirarchy

by Check_Your_Premises 12 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  The more I learn about the dubs the more I understand so many things that take place. One thing that has been of interest to me is all the politics that go into choosing people for the various tasks.

  I figure human nature is human nature.

  Is it just like all other human endeavors where men seek advancement and women (sorry ladies but this is historically true, even if it isn't as true today) seek status through their husbands position?

  Do jobs have to open up before someone can be chosen?

  Are guys always jockeying for position and stabbing eachother in the back to get a spot?

  Does one guy always end up running the show, and the other elders divide along "party lines"?

  When spot opens up, do cong members "campaign" for people?

  Do elders meet regularly? What do they usually cover in their meetings.

  What are the common elder "types"? What are their identifiable traits?

  Help me and other non-jws understand what is REALLY going on.
• 

  IP_SEC

  Sorry I can only speak from my experiance.
  

  1. Do jobs have to open up before someone can be chosen?
  Not just be be an elder or ms. I know a congo in brooklyn has 43 elders. Now specific jobs like SO, DO, Secretary, can only be filled by one man at a time. They stay such until the CO or Body decides a change is needed or the brother steps aside. The WT, TMS overseers will probably give a new boy the job first chance they get.

  2. Are guys always jockeying for position and stabbing eachother in the back to get a spot?
  I've heard in some places that happens. I have never seen it.

  3. Does one guy always end up running the show, and the other elders divide along "party lines"?
  Usually the bro with the strongest personality prevails, so yes.

  4. When spot opens up, do cong members "campaign" for people?
  They would be ignored if they did.

  5. Do elders meet regularly? What do they usually cover in their meetings.
  Suposed to meet at least 4 times a year. Our Service committee meets more often and since our body is small we usually meet as a whole body to decide service committee stuff anyhow. So probably 10 times per year for us.

  6. What are the common elder "types"? What are their identifiable traits?
  Same types you'd find in any like structure.
• 

  Balsam

  Ministerial Servants - helpers to the Elders do the less important jobs in the KH generally. Do the reading part at the congregational book studies, get magazines out to the rank & file. There can be several of them. One congregation I was in had 7 of them.

  Elders - Generally men who have been a while and show what JW consider responsible behavior and attitudes, which means they are company men. There can be from one Elder to as many as 13 that I know of. Usually when a congregation has that many Elders then there are lots of rank & file. So then the congregation spits and a new one is set up.

  There is a certain sense of pride in being either one for the men of the cong. And yes there is competion among the brothers as they try to impress each other with their theocratic attitude. It is all pretty amusing. There is no campaigning because the rank & file have no say in who is appointed. Though I am sure they wish they did. Elders generally meet once a month at least. I have been in congregation where there was Elders meetings every darn sunday after the meeting. Us women had to sit around sometimes for up to 3 hrs with little kids waiting on these men if whe didn't bring a separate car. Very irritating to the women.

  They talk about people in the congregation that is causing problems, or just about anything. Meeting set up or some letter from the society. Judical committees are generally made up of 3 Elders and they handle all the details of people being set up for disfellowshipping, disassocation, or public reprove. All the dirty little secrets go to them to handle. It is suppose to confidential and even the wives of these men are kept in the dark. That way see apostates can be gotten out and accused of immorality and they can get away with it.

  Balsam
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  So you are telling me...

  ...that if Sister Schmuck-a-telli, who is married to elder candidate brother Schmuck-a-telli, is talking to sister Bag-a-donuts who is married to the respected elder, brother Bag-a-donuts,

  ...she is not going to say what a great elder she thinks brother Schmuck-a-telli would be?!....

  And in the course of the conversation she won't mention how the other elder candidate, brother Alphabet (who is married to that sister Alphabet who sister Schmuck-a-telli doesn't like because she always raises her hand when she raises her hand) just isn't running very hard with that microphone lately?

  So you are telling me that stuff doesn't go on?
• 

  LongHairGal

  CheckYourPremises:
  
  What you don't know is that Brother Schmuckatelli tells his eldress wife everything. Then she in turn gets on the phone and tells Sister Bag-O-Donuts (who is a pioneer and entitled to know everything). Sister Bag-O-Donuts tells the other self-righteous pioneers...etc. Well, you get the story. So what was "confidential" is now known to at least twenty people. That number will soon grow depending on how many gatherings these twenty people attend...and so on..and so on...
  
  LHG
• 

  mustang

  Follow-up of LHG's comment:

  And don't forget that the telling to the 20 or so of the congo of maybe 80 or more has it's own life and it's own rules. And one of those rules is very similar to the "Theocraptik Warfare" convention: whoever is in my clique and is on the right "list" is entitled to know. Let anyone in disfavor of the clique and the list, suffer or guess!!!

  For it is theocraptically written:

  Yea verily and woe, there be a gnashing of teeth, wailing and ripping of clothing, wearing of sackcloth and covering thyself with ashes, if thee hath befallen the ire of the CLIQUE!!!

  Mustang
• 

  Honesty

  They talk about people in the congregation that is causing problems

  That's the only topic that mattered.
• 

  TheListener

  CYP,

  From my own experiences. I have found that the appointment of elders is very personality driven. Yes, the wives may do that sort of politicking in service or at a gathering. However, the society is and has been for some time short of elders and ms. The bodies of elders would like to make as many ministerial servants into elders as possible. They're supposed to work with the ms in the hall to help them qualify for elder. There are lazy BOEs who don't do this and there are bodies who are really good at doing this. The point is there is no specific number of elders a congregation cannot exceed so any good ms can be appointed regardless of the number of elders. There are of course BOEs who loathe to appoint any ms into the elder role and therefore some ms move to different cong. to get appointed there. I've even heard of cases where an ms will move away to get appointed and then move back to the original cong. to serve.

  As far as politicking for positions within the body. Each body is different. It all depends on the makeup of the various personalities. If there is a strong personality that leads the other brothers, he can be a kingmaker or a king - his choice. By king I mean PO or secretary.

  Since it's all personality driven the best thing an ms can do to get appointed is be regular at meetings, comment a lot, give well prepared talks, go in service regularly - or do nothing and kiss a^$ or be related to an elder!!
• 

  ljwtiamb

  You have all given excellent insight, minus an important trump card: ex-bethelite.

  In this org, bethel on your resume is almost like having an advanced degree.

  Often, but not always, the other elders will bow to such a brother if he has served in JW HQ for 5 years or more.

  Now if he was a bethel-elder, (had internal elder clout, dept. head, speaking list, etc.) he was on an organizational level of a traveling overseer. So, he has immediate credit with ANY congregation that he walks into. Keep in mind, that this can be lost if he doesn't tow the local political line. However, generally if he plays his cards right, he immediately bypasses the locals by getting in with the circuit and district overseers with assembly talks, memorial talks, etc.

  The problem is that all to often, ex-bethelites don't glamorize the local elder positions anymore. Having been at the org and seen the gb and writers, glorious ones, etc. all in person, they lose a lot of the appreciation for the position and just want to make up for lost time by making lots of money.

  In fact, it's not uncommon for ex-bethelites, ex-circuit overseers, etc. to end up fading away or becoming the dreaded 'apostates'. Even at best, they usually don't try to attain such a high local standing again. I think the level of fade is directly proportionate to the length of time and level that they reached before leaving.
• 

  Black Man

  DING, DING, DING.............we have a winner...........

  ljwtiamb,

  You have hit the proverbial nail on the head. Ex-bethelites can indeed walk into a local kh and enjoy a position right away, especially if they've had other special privileges during their Bethel tenure. And most definitely do not have an appreciation for the POSITION because of who they rubbed shoulders with at "the house." I've seen this over and over again......................